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From Scott_B...@lotus.com
Subject Re: Resend of first cut
Date Thu, 08 Mar 2001 01:31:38 GMT

bill parducci <bill@parducci.net> wrote on 03/07/2001 02:06 PM:
> but lack of management skills is what gets
> you into the situation you have now.

Well, I think the previous PMC suffered badly from not having enough real
committers... that was one of it's major flaws, in my opinion.  They were
appointed because of the company politics that occurred when xml.apache.org
formed (again, in my opinion).  And at least one of those members had a
very good reputation as a manager (I think).

bill parducci <bill@parducci.net> wrote on 03/07/2001 07:14 PM:
> 'trial by fire' may work for a very few brilliant individuals, but is it
> fair to the community as a whole to suffer through such a process when
> there may be people available that will step up and take on the roll
> with the required skills today?

Hmm... well, I think I would rather be "managed" by someone who I know
understands my problems, and also understands that they don't know how to
manage, than someone who thinks they understand my problems, and thinks
they know how to manage.  The problems in an Open Source "community" are
different from a business or classic development manager scenario.  I'm not
sure someone who comes from a management scenario in business has a head
start in an Open Source scenario.

BUT, I want to make it clear:  I believe in business and development
management in companies.  Some of my favorate managers have never touched a
line of code.  Sometimes it's worse when a manager thinks s/he's technical
and can understand the problems that a coder faces (often the last line of
code they wrote was in 1971).  I just think that Apache is a fundementally
different model than a business, and the same techniques do not necessarily

lchamber@ca.ibm.com on 03/07/2001 12:33 PM wrote:
> the PMC needs to leverage non-technical skills
> as well.
> I'd hate to see the new PMC be less effective than it could be because
> newly-elected
> team prioritized the "dry" administrative work down the queue.

Well, I'd like to see a lawyer on the PMC for license and IP issues.  Other
than that, I'm not sure how "dry" the work will be in reality.  It's not
like the PMC needs to handle a budget, do personal reviews, set schedules,
interview hiring candidates, work with marketing folk, and the like.  Bill
used the terms "facilitation, coordination etc.", but, again, I'm not sure
the skills for this in an Open Source environment are the same as in a
business environment.  I suspect that Arved (for instance) has far greater
capability for facilitation and coordination in this environment than a
classic development manager (actually, I don't know Arved all that well, so
maybe I better not talk...).


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