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From Kimbro Staken <ksta...@dbxmlgroup.com>
Subject Re: VOTE: PMC size
Date Tue, 06 Mar 2001 19:58:34 GMT
Scott_Boag@lotus.com wrote:
> Leadership doesn't happen because of process.  It happens because people
> step up to the plate, work hard, and spend the time.  Leadership shouldn't
> be appointed, it should be earned.

But that was exactly my point. You already know who the leaders in this
organization are. You are definitely one of them. Right now though you
need to put a stake in the ground and say that for the next 6 months or
1 year these are the people who have been recognized by the community as
leaders and are now tasked with the role of "guiding" the community
forward. Over time new ones will emerge and existing ones will drift
away but that is why you keep the committee open to new members. By
"guiding" I mean exactly that, guiding, not driving, dictating or
forcing just guiding.

> No, speaking for myself anyway, it happened because Roy's note came at a
> very busy time, and fell off my radar.  This stuff happens.  Also, the PMC
> as composed was made of many people who were company politicians with
> secret agendas instead of true committers with dedication to the projects
> -- a fallout from how xml.apache.org was seeded.  Rebuilding the PMC and
> charter is good and appropriate... but shouldn't be seen as indicative of
> the health of the project as a whole.

Clearly the XML organization is healthy and the only reason I reacted to
this message is because I definitely consider you a leader in it. As
such I see your words as carrying more weight and others will as well.
This means when you suggest that your preference is for a situation
where there is no official leadership, when it is clearly called for, it
is extremely troubling. 

> You're right, it won't solve the problem, but it won't get in the way of
> solving the problem either.  Leadership is different from top-down
> management structure, which is what we don't need.  Leadership can occur in
> an open environment as well as or better than a small, closed environment.

If you didn't already have people who have stepped up to the plate I
would agree with you. Also you have had these leaders the whole time,
but thus far they appear to have been ineffective for the organization
as a whole when working informally in the open environment.  Your
individual projects are doing great with informal leadership but getting
that success to percolate up to the organization overall hasn't really
been happening. Maybe this is simply because of the existence of the
previous flawed PMC that stood in the way, I don't know. I fear the
problem is deeper then that though. I think the dynamics of the
organization overall are sufficiently different from the individual
project dynamics that a more official leadership team is necessary and
essential to the long term health of the organization.

Anyway, I have confidence that you guys will work it out. I've butted in
enough and I think most of you tuned me out at my first mention of the
word business :-) so I'll just leave it at that.

Kimbro Staken
A concerned user of Apache XML who is shutting up now. :-)

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