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From "Kimbro Staken" <ksta...@dbxmlgroup.com>
Subject Re: Mixing Two Terminologies
Date Sun, 04 Mar 2001 07:22:06 GMT

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted Leung" <twleung@sauria.com>
To: <general@xml.apache.org>
Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 9:34 PM
Subject: Re: Mixing Two Terminologies

> > organization. Their role should really just be to gently nudge things
> along
> > to keep the organization on track to fulfill what ever stategic goals
> > outlined.
> I agree that more leadership is needed.  The question is how much.  I'd
> to see us start with as little as possible and add more if needed.
> The reasons for why the previous PMC have the roots in the history of the
> formation of the project.  That's why it's going to take blowing the old
> away
> and getting a new one to make progress.  That doesn't mean that the new
> needs to be super managerial right off the bat.

Remember I didn't say the PMC should be "super managerial" I said "Their
role should really just be to gently nudge things along". Basically what
this means is that to the largest extent possible the PMC should let the
projects run on their own while at the same time keeping their eye on the
bigger picture. When things need to be adjusted the PMC nudges them along
the way to get them back on track. I think we're actually in agreement on
this point.

> I see your scenario -- I guess I don't think that this is thinking like a
> business, since
> some businesses have web sites at least as bad as what you describe above.
> I
> guess I'm just resisting the notion that to do a "quality" (for your
> favorite definition
> of quality) job, that we must be "business-like" (whatever that really
> means).   Rather
> than steal all our ideas from the business world - I want to see us
> to develop
> the ASF-style Open Source paradigm as something that we can give back to
> business world, along with the great code.

But don't you see, we have the same goal! The difference is that I am saying
that there is much to be learned from the other side of the fence and that
learning those concepts will help us achieve that goal. You're  already
applying some of the concepts as I pointed out before, you just don't want
to think of it in those terms. Why is that? What do you have to fear?

Open Source developers often state their position as being anti-business.
You are doing the same. But I think you're projecting your distaste for all
the greed, politics and lies onto the fundamental concepts of running a
business. The greed, politics and lies that we all hate so much are born out
of the fact that most commercial software enterprises are in the business of
making money not in the business of making software. When money is present
you get greed and all the unsavory people who are attracted to money like
moths to a street lamp. You are not in the business of making money you are
in the business of making great software. There is no other motivation and
there is no reason to attract all those unsavory types that make commercial
software so unpleasent to work on. There is nothing wrong with the ideas of
business it is all the crap that comes along with the goal of making money
that is the problem.

The faster the PMC recognizes that you are in the business of making great
software the faster you will be able to leverage the GOOD business concepts
to help you in the business at hand.

> Maybe I'm just a dreamer...

Maybe I am too.

Kimbro Staken
Chief Technology Officer
The dbXML Group L.L.C.

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