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From "Ted Leung" <twle...@sauria.com>
Subject Re: xml.apache.org charter proposal
Date Fri, 30 Mar 2001 05:42:57 GMT

----- Original Message -----
From: <Scott_Boag@lotus.com>
To: <general@xml.apache.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 7:31 PM
Subject: RE: xml.apache.org charter proposal


>
> Arved Sandstrom <Arved_37@chebucto.ns.ca> wrote:
> > Scott, what did you mean by 'a standard that is based on XML'?
>
> Dunno, maybe I'm marching down the wrong path there.  As I said, it was
> only a start.
>
> > I don't think the Ant format is a 'Standards-based' thing - but
> > it's great to have available components that consume this and
> > do useful work.
>
> Ant is a really good example to discuss.  It fits most of the criteria I
> named.  Whether or not it's a standard could be debated, but I really
think
> it's on its way to becoming a defacto standard, so it fits the bill in my
> book.

Right.  But when Ant started as a Jakarta project, there was no OASIS, W3C,
IETF
or any other standard (except for make).  It only became a defacto standard
after the fact.  So if we adopted a "standards" based charter, we'd never do
any
development of things like Ant.  That's why I'm not excited about a charter
that
involves using standards as the exclusion mechanism.

> I wouldn't think Ant would be a good candidate for xml.apache.com.   Why?
> Because it is not a "general" ML... it is for a specific purpose... it
> could just as easily be ZXY language, if it worked as well as ant does.
> But maybe you could say the same thing about FOs?
>
> As I said, maybe this is the wrong start.  Maybe we should work on what
our
> vision is... what is it that xml.apache.org is trying to build beyond
> riding on the XML buzz word?
>
> My vision: We exist to enable clean information to be easily exchanged,
> transformed, presented, and used in a great variety of configurations, and
> we believe that XML is the best protocol for that information.  We want to
> define a set of pluggable components that exchange or deal with XML
> information sets that plug into each other using standard APIs, that are
> very high performance, reliable, and easy to use.  These components should
> be part of a underlying architectural orchistration that will allow them
to
> work together without major negotiations or breakages.  We believe that
> these components should be vendor neutral and useable as core components
> for all.  We believe that the best way to define this XML information
> exchange architecture is by having both individuals and corporations
> collaborate on the best possible infrastructure, APIs, code, testing, and
> release cycles.  We believe that these XML information components will
help
> to change the world in a positive way by making knowledge and data as they
> exist on computer networks much more powerful that they are currently.
>
> So that's my personal vision, and I think is the general reason why I am
> doing what I'm doing.  Can other's articulate why they are here, and what
> they would like to build on xml.apache.org???

Actually, what you've said there is pretty close, although it could be
interpreted as
"cool XML stuff".  My slant is more like this (I'm not saying we have to use
this, I'm
trying to explain where I'm coming from):  I want the opportunity to work
with smart
people on interesting problems  in the XML space, and  I want the fruits of
my labor
to be  available to whoever wants to use it (individual or corporation).
The ability
to innovate in this space is very important to me.

> Interestingly, Cocoon *does* fit into this vision, which I think is really
> cool.

I'd be very happy if in a year or two, we had a bunch more cool projects
like Cocoon.
The projects that most represent innovation to me are Cocoon, Ant, Struts,
Turbine,
and Velocity.   Most of our (XML) current projects are building blooks for
the really
cool stuff.  And we haven't started on much of that yet.

My 2cents.

Ted


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