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From "Ted Leung" <twle...@sauria.com>
Subject Re: Volunteers: FINAL Cut?
Date Fri, 09 Mar 2001 19:18:32 GMT
Wow.  We were almost there.

Here's where I thought we were:

1.  We were converging on a PMC of 5.  With this number there was
no way there could be project representation - In my mind project
representation
would be 1 person for every project - each language variant being a project
as well.
2.  The size 5 PMC was going to do the minimum amount necessary, focusing on
legal and administrative issues.  It would also be responsible for
facilitating/bootstrapping
either a) a bigger PMC with project representation or b) the working groups
that Arved
had proposed.

Here's my 2 cents.   The xml project has never really been given the chance
to do
what is happening now.  Instead of being created from the bottom up it was
created
from the top down.  The community needs time to meet each other and discuss
where
it wants to go.  I was in favor of a small PMC as a transitional situation.
There are license
requests and so forth coming in.  Let's get some people to handle that.  And
let's take the
time for everyone to discuss how they want to community to work.  I think
that the whole
community can agree on a timeline for how we want to work this out.  That
timeline should
give everybody involved some assurance that things will get worked out in
(reasonably) timely
manner.  In the meantime the existence of a very limited small PMC can
address the ASF's
concerns about project management.   In the end, I strongly agree that we
need to have
individual project representation.  It's not clear to me that the PMC is the
right group for that --
partially because we don't know what the PMC is really for other that Roy's
set of minimum
requirements.   Part of the problem is that everyone thinks (because of
history) that the PMC
is going to be this cabal of people that is going to hand down decisions.
I prefer a view that
says that the PMC should handle some of the administrative "scut work" that
needs to be
done, and that in the absence of vigorous community life, it has a
responsibility to foster such
a life.

So I see it that project representation is the final goal, and that the 5
person PMC is an intermediate
step along the way to that goal.  If we decide we want to skip that step
that's fine by me.  But then
we're back to putting all the functions into one basket, and I was getting
the sense that people didn't
want to do that (working groups, AMC, etc).

Ted

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Ruby" <rubys@us.ibm.com>
To: <general@xml.apache.org>
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 9:39 AM
Subject: Re: Volunteers: FINAL Cut?


> Scott Boag wrote:
> >
> > If we *are* shooting for project representation, then, god damn
> > it, make it fair representation.  Should Xerces C or Xerces Perl
> > have separate representation?
>
> Oddly enough, I think we are agreeing.  If Xerces C and Xerces Perl feel
> like one person can do them justice, then so much the better.  If not,
this
> should be listened to.  A more clear case from Arved's note was a single
> representative for Xerces and Crimson.  Perhaps this is possible, but if
> not, it shouldn't be forced.
>
> My two cents is project representation is more important than a fixed goal
> of 5.  If the right ratio turns out to be 2 projects per PMC
> representative, then great.  But if the right ratio turns out to be 2 PMC
> representatives per project then - while the group would be suboptimal
from
> a number of perspectives - but it still would be preferred over a
> nonrepresentative group.
>
> That being said, if the consensus is 5, I'm willing to go with the
> consensus.  As Scott indicated, lets just do it without any pretense that
> project representation is a goal.
>
> - Sam Ruby
>
>
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