xml-general mailing list archives

Site index · List index
Message view « Date » · « Thread »
Top « Date » · « Thread »
From "Chris Greenlee" <CGreen...@demandsolutions.com>
Subject RE: Test Infrastructure Project Proposal
Date Fri, 16 Feb 2001 15:19:54 GMT

I'm curious as to the reasons you've chosen not to use JUnit.  Is there
an archive somewhere of the discussion?

Cheers,

Chris Greenlee
cgreenlee@demandsolutions.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott_Boag@lotus.com [mailto:Scott_Boag@lotus.com]
> Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2001 3:07 PM
> To: general@xml.apache.org; general@jakarta.apache.org
> Cc: pmc@xml.apache.org; xerces-j-dev@xml.apache.org;
> xalan-dev@xml.apache.org; cocoon-dev@xml.apache.org
> Subject: Test Infrastructure Project Proposal
> 
> 
> 
> Ross Burton <ross.burton@mail.com> wrote:
> > Having spent all day upto my arm pits in bits of cocoon, xerces and
> > xalan, I've come to the conclusion that tracking down bugs 
> in bits of
> > cocoon can be nearly impossible at the moment. How would 
> you guys feel
> > about us starting to use JUnit to run unit tests over cocoon?
> 
> First, sorry for the large cross-posting.  But I wanted to 
> make sure this
> note is received by a large audience.  Replies should be sent only to
> general@xml.apache.org (I'm not subscribed to 
> general@jakarta.apache.org).
> 
> Xalan being a project that 1) requires a *lot* of testing, and 2) is
> sandwiched inbetween Cocoon and Xerces, 3) is dependent on other
> technologies like BSF, and 4) is used in several other 
> pipeline scenarios,
> we (i.e. the folks at Lotus who are involved in the Xalan 
> project) have
> been doing a lot of thinking about this subject.
> 
> What is happening in the XML/Web world is the integration of a lot of
> smaller components, plugged together via (hopefully) standard 
> interfaces.
> This increases the need for unit testing, and integration 
> testing in a big
> way.  In systems such as we are building, robustness is 
> everything, and
> fragility is becoming an increasing problem.  I feel this is 
> probably the
> most critical issue xml.apache.org and the Jakarta projects 
> are facing,
> even above performance issues.  The days have ended when 
> Xerces can release
> without testing with Xalan, and Xalan can release without testing with
> Cocoon, etc.
> 
> Also, I feel what we are all practising is pretty close to "Extreme
> Programming" (http://www.extremeprogramming.org/), by our 
> very motto of
> "release early and often".  Extreme programming is very 
> reliant on having a
> *lot* of tests that are constantly run (see
> http://www.extremeprogramming.org/rules/unittests.html and
> http://www.extremeprogramming.org/rules/functionaltests.html).
>   This means
> that tests must be very fast to create, easy to plug in, easy 
> to have them
> become part of the perminant acceptence tests, running the 
> tests must be
> extremely convenient, and diagnosing problems from the 
> reports must also be
> easy.  And when a bug is found by a user, a test should 
> almost always be
> added to the acceptence tests
> (http://www.extremeprogramming.org/rules/bugs.html).
> 
> We have analyzed JUnit and feel it doesn't address our needs, nor the
> integration testing needs, though we like it's Ant base.
> 
> I propose a project for testing infrastructure, that covers 
> the needs of
> unit testing, stress testing, performance testing, negative 
> testing (i.e.
> testing of error conditions), integration testing, and error 
> logging and
> reporting.  I don't know or care if this is a Jakarta project or an
> xml.apache.org project.  I believe the Jakarta project has 
> been thinking
> somewhat along these lines?
> 
> The Xalan project already has a fair amount of infrastructure 
> that we would
> be happy to contribute.  But basically, I think we should 
> start first with
> requirements, then a schema for reporting (i.e. design the 
> data first), go
> next to interfaces, and then decide what existing code can be used.
> 
> Thoughts?  Does anyone want to -1 this?  If not, where should 
> it live? (I
> suspect the answer is in Jakarta, next to Ant).  What should 
> it be named?
> What are the next steps?  Who should be the founders?  And what about
> C-language integration testing, as well as other languages 
> (which might
> argue against a home in Jakarta?)?
> 
> Again, sorry for the large cross-posting, but I think it's 
> time for this
> issue to get full attention from all the projects.
> 
> -scott
> 
> 
> 
> 
>                                                               
>                                                      
>                     Ross Burton                               
>                                                      
>                     <ross.burton@        To:     
> cocoon-dev@xml.apache.org                                         
>                     mail.com>            cc:     (bcc: Scott 
> Boag/CAM/Lotus)                                       
>                     Sent by:             Subject:     Re: 
> [C2] Unit testing.                                       
>                     ross@itzinter                             
>                                                      
>                     active.com                                
>                                                      
>                                                               
>                                                      
>                                                               
>                                                      
>                     02/10/2001                                
>                                                      
>                     09:37 AM                                  
>                                                      
>                     Please                                    
>                                                      
>                     respond to                                
>                                                      
>                     cocoon-dev                                
>                                                      
>                                                               
>                                                      
>                                                               
>                                                      
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: xerces-j-user-unsubscribe@xml.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: xerces-j-user-help@xml.apache.org
> 
> 

Mime
View raw message