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From James Duncan Davidson <james.david...@eng.sun.com>
Subject Re: [spinnaker] Announce
Date Mon, 10 Jul 2000 21:11:32 GMT
on 7/10/00 9:22 AM, Scott Boag/CAM/Lotus at Scott_Boag@lotus.com wrote:

> Here's my problem: though I've asked many times, the Sun engineers who are
> doing the XSLT processor haven't bothered to talk to the Xalan folk.

Yes, I know. I've been pushing on them. But they are in a different division
than I am. My range of influence is limited.

> They rolled this interesting implementation, then made a press announcement
> that they were going to donate it to Apache.  Why not talk to us about the
> possibilities of collaboration first?

They were idiots for making that press annoucement. I won't cut them slack
on it. There has been talk about making it open source, and Apache would be
the obvious place to take it. I've even made preliminary discussion about it
at the XML PMC level (you do remember don't you?). But to announce something
like that is before it's been decided, or accepted by Apache, is

> Out of the gate, it is a competative situation, instead of a collaborative
> one.

But now you are talking Sun vs. IBM again. Don't lump me in with what
they've done.

What do you want me to do? Quit my job, walk away from my options and
interests, post only with my x180.com address so that it's clear that I
don't see eye to eye with my employer on everything -- so that it's clear
that I am operating as an individual most of the time?

Don't think that I haven't considered it anyway.

> Xalan 2.0.0 is not done, and we would be glad to talk
> of radical possibilities, or work with the Translets team on the Translets
> concept, with all or part of the code as a Xalan fork.

Yes, Like I've said I've been trying to communicate that for you. However, I
can't control what they do. I'm not doing XSLT work because, quite frankly,
I can't do that much at once. I pushed on you to open up the 2.0 branch at
the PMC level and you did that and I'm glad. Hopefully people will come to
the party. I'm trying to keep an eye on the xalan-dev list to see if I can
encourage people to go to the party, but so far it's been hit or miss.

Note that Xalan 2.0 is essentially a complete rewrite (from what you've told
me and what I can tell) -- you've taken the approach that you needed to
learn from history. It started internally unfortunatly. It's now external
where it needs to be. And thank you for moving it out where it should be.

Xerces hasn't had a publically discussed, wide open NG workspace for talk
about a new parser until now.

> Things could get done more quickly if ideas were simply
> exchanged, design documents collaboratively created, and then *shared*
> decisions made as to whether or not the part or the whole of the new design
> should be a fork or not.

Ok, so I sent out a message with a list of goals and a proposed way of
getting there. You'll notice that I started a design discussion yesterday on
xerces-j-dev. You've heard me say that if nobody shows up to Spinnaker, it
*will* die (which makes a decision).

There is no conflict in these two paragraphs -- except for the fact that I'm
from Sun, I've got an eng.sun.com address that I'm posting with, and you
hate me for that. And oh, I came out strong with my email saying I was doing
something instead of "Oh, please can we start looking?". I'm forcing the
look, yes. Don't take it personally.


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