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From "Joe Polastre" <jpol...@apache.org>
Subject Re: What name?
Date Tue, 11 Jul 2000 22:53:40 GMT
From: "Brett McLaughlin" <brett.mclaughlin@lutris.com>
> Oh sure - any codename if fine, is what I am saying ;-)

right.  hopefully we can reach a decision on what codename to adopt.  I
agree that xml4j/xml4c were IBM names and were appropriately changed when
introduced to apache.  I can understand (not agree, but understand) the
xerces connotation as being from IBM.  but along the same lines, spinnaker
sounds like something that those who happen to be employed at sun thought
up.  if our goal is open development and design of a ng parser, then we
should also be open about the name...  just my 2 cents.

> Actually, not at all - sorry about that!

np... sorry, I jumped on that one =)

> That's great. But I will still maintain that the /appearance/ was
> otherwise. In other Apache projects, multiple patches would have to
> occur, publicly, for that committer status to ever be obtained. I didn't
> see those patches (which doesn't mean they didn't exist!). Another thing
> that could have happened is that you may have made changes, that got
> introduced by other IBMers, without ever seeing the patches on the
> public lists. So again, while you may have earned the privs, it didn't
> look that way - just perception I'm talking here, certainly nothing
> against you or other IBM folks personally ;-)

you're right.  some (maybe even most) of the patches did not publicly
include the code.  some of them, the xerces-c list was informed of the
changes that were intended, i made the changes, then forwarded them on to an
IBM committer w/o posting the actual changes to be made.  if i could do it
again, i promise you they would have been posted to the list =)

same is true of the COM wrapper.  Curt [non ibm'er] has been working on that
and did some absolutely great changes, but alot of it was submitted through
IBM'ers.  Curt submitted updates to the list but not the specific code
changes.

i'm glad that you have brought this up tho.  i like constructive criticism
instead of brash complaints =)

> That's terrific. I look forward to seeing your patches.

i look forward to working on the design for ng xerces-j and xerces-c.

> Can and do aren't the same ;-)  I haven't seen that happen. I have seen
> what looks like IBM helping ensure dominance. The court of public
> opinion can be a sticky thing!

ensuring dominance vs. committing resources is a different story though.
sun (and other companies) have agreed to commit to work on xerces, yet we
haven't seen anything from them until this spinnaker debacle.  public
perception is a problem--many sun speakers at the javaone conference
specifically said that xerces was "sun's code" and "primary development is
being done by sun."  [this was in the sessions, not the apache bof]  anyway,
last i checked, it was an *apache* project.  so thus, it comes as a surprise
that they're not interested in xerces1 sourcebase anymore.

unfortunately both ibm and sun are guilty for branding xerces as their own.
i'm hoping that with a new design, we might be able to get a larger
developer base involved with the project to truely make it a community
effort.

[end of sun vs. ibm argument, sorry for the diversion]

> Not at all! I certainly want to emphasize that I don't fault anyone's
> competence, or even what happened - I fault the appearance of the way
> things happened, because they contributed to the overall feeling of IBM
> running Xerces. This perception, I think you can at least acknowledge,
> if not agree with. I'm simply saying we can do things to lessen that
> perspective - and the cost is things like not using Xerces 2 as a name.
> Is that really such a big deal? If it isn't let's just get on with it!

just don't like the 'spinnaker' name... that's it =)  like i said above, it
has a negative connotation to me... like xml4j was IBM's internal name,
sorta seems like spinnaker is the same for sun.  or getting away from the
'sun' thing, it sounds like it was conceived by one or two people instead of
the group at large.  lets just go with something neutral that the community
decides upon.  if everyone says 'spinnaker is a great codename' and i'm the
only outlier, then i say go with the name.

-Joe


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