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From Stefano Mazzocchi <stef...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [ANN] EZ/X - XML Technology Preview Now Available
Date Sun, 05 Dec 1999 22:16:30 GMT
Pierpaolo Fumagalli wrote:
> Mahesh Shantaram wrote:
> >
> > IMHO, if the product is XML-related, or promotes XML technology in
> > some way, it should fit in here. EZ/X sounds like a promising piece of
> > software. The best reviewers are probably on this mailing list. So, I don't
> > see anything wrong with Tower's posting. But that's my HO!
> I don't know why (and with this mail, please let's take the discussion
> off-line, reply me privately) most of the developers linked to
> XML.APACHE.ORG are against those kind of messages, while people never
> heard before are all in favour of it... I might be wrong but I think
> that, at least here, power and right of decision should be given to the
> developers (us!) who created this mailing list and maintain
> xml.apache...

I'm totally against Pier on this.

The power here should NOT go the people creating and maintaining the
mail list. The power of Apache are its users, not its developers. Why?
because all of us where users before being developers.

Since I know Pier and everybody else around here share my same feelings,
I would like to clarify a little:

1) the power is _NOT_ concentrated on the hands of few. Everything is
done publicly. I was also against the creation of private PMC list, but
I got overruled for legal issues. Anyway, all of us trying to reduce the
PMC messages to "how do we deal with that license", "how do we accept
that donation", etc... nothing you will ever want to be involved in (in
fact, I don't want either, but this is another story...)

2) Apache is a community. A community is created by people. People come
here if they like it. If they don't, that's totally fine, and walk away.
It's up to their own taste. The best comment I heard about java.apache
was that people was getting back as soon as they could because "they
were feeling at home, between friends". This is _NOT_ what's happening
here and I still have to figure out why.

So, if you subscribed yesterday and you want to express you opinion,
damn it, you have all the rights in the world to do it. Everyone else
has the right to disagree respectfully without imposing their status
(because being an xxx@apache.org person doesn't make you smarter at all!
quite the opposite sometimes: you take your status for granted, this is
true for myself in particular)

On the other hand, as we try to be respectful of others, we would like
them to be as respectful.

This EZ/X - XML technology preview might or might not interest you, but
there are appropriate mail lists where you should be subscribed where
these posts should happen. (xml-dev, xsl-list)

I consider this kind of thing _very_ tasteless and I also find offensive
that people come here and throw figures at others without respect.

Do you want to know the story? We contacted "Activated Intelligence" to
see if they wanted to provide their XML/XSL technology to us and
incorporate it with the xml.apache.org project. They replied a very
gently "no thanks, we'd like to make money on this stuff" and we were
friends as before.

Now they come and throw figures at us? excuse me, but how silly is that?
How cares about speed if you can't provide a solid foundation of users
and developers, a community to back up your effort?

If you lack speed you tune it up, but if you lack a community?

Competition is _alwasy_ a good thing, even between open source projects.

How would you consider myself going into the Mike Key's mail list and
say "Cocoon is twice as powerful as SAXON". C'mon. That's the best way
to get flamed and to avoid users for looking at your stuff. Respect is
_everything_ in this world.

And we all should put respect in front of our replies, all of us.

Stefano Mazzocchi      One must still have chaos in oneself to be
                          able to give birth to a dancing star.
<stefano@apache.org>                             Friedrich Nietzsche

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