Mailing-List: contact repository-help@apache.org; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: repository@apache.org
Subject: [Fwd: Re: click through license support?]
From: Jason van Zyl <jvanzyl@maven.org>
To: repository@apache.org
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-LrkvCrqPgqYxfpVjiiKj"
Organization: 
Message-Id: <1069170633.4382.96.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: 18 Nov 2003 10:50:33 -0500


--=-LrkvCrqPgqYxfpVjiiKj
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Sent this to nicola directly by mistake. Nicola is your mail client
overwritting the reply-to?

-- 
jvz.

Jason van Zyl
jason@zenplex.com
http://tambora.zenplex.org

In short, man creates for himself a new religion of a rational
and technical order to justify his work and to be justified in it.
  
  -- Jacques Ellul, The Technological Society

--=-LrkvCrqPgqYxfpVjiiKj
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Description: Forwarded message - Re: click through license support?
Content-Type: message/rfc822

Subject: Re: click through license support?
From: Jason van Zyl <jvanzyl@maven.org>
To: nicolaken@apache.org
In-Reply-To: <3FBA2D31.4080107@apache.org>
References: 
	 <OF9006DEF9.6AC6E432-ONCA256DE2.004E1AEA-CA256DE2.004E8036@multitask.com.au>
	 <3FBA2D31.4080107@apache.org>
Content-Type: text/plain
Organization: 
Message-Id: <1069170009.4382.83.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.2 (1.2.2-5) 
Date: 18 Nov 2003 10:40:09 -0500
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

On Tue, 2003-11-18 at 09:31, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> dion@multitask.com.au wrote:
> 
> > Nicola Ken Barozzi <nicolaken@apache.org> wrote on 15/11/2003 10:00:07 PM:
> > 
> > 
> >>Tim Anderson wrote:
> ...
> >>>A tool can 'screen scrape' the redirected page, prompt the user
> >>>to accept the license and only download if the license is accepted,
> >>
> >>If the tool is made to work like a web browser, ie show the pages and 
> >>then download when the user clicks on the button, IMHO it would be 
> >>perfectly acceptable.
> > 
> > But still illegal.
> 
> I still don't understand why.
> 
> I mean, if:
> 
>   1-  the program opens the browser on the product download page
>   2 - the user does the download steps as usual
>   3 - the program gets the downloaded artifact from the local download
>       location
> 
> Why would we be breaking the license? The only difference between this 
> approach and the usual one is that the download location is linked.

The fact is it doesn't matter what we think. I asked the board and they
said work it out with Sun. Sun doesn't actually care if we put the
JavaMail jar on ibiblio and they would never take legal action but we
still can't put it there. I don't see any problem with the scraper
approach either but it contravenes what Sun intends for users and so we
need their express permission. At any rate we can't do it any other way
so says the board. So it is moot what we think or that it is actually
reasonable, we are dealing with lawyers who could turn something simple
like this into an incomprehensible mess.

I have seen a drop in replacement for JavaMail and I would like to put
that in the repository and find other replacements like it. Sun isn't
going to out of their way to help us unless there is an extreme amount
of pressure placed on them and they get some good PR out of it.

> > We've been down this road and are working with Sun on a solution. We have 
> > (had?) a tool that would do the above in Maven ages ago.
> 
> Yes, I'm aware of that.
> 
> > See http://maven.apache.org/sun-licensing-journey.html
> 
> Very good that you have this page, thanks for the pointer.
-- 
jvz.

Jason van Zyl
jason@zenplex.com
http://tambora.zenplex.org

In short, man creates for himself a new religion of a rational
and technical order to justify his work and to be justified in it.
  
  -- Jacques Ellul, The Technological Society

--=-LrkvCrqPgqYxfpVjiiKj--