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From Konstantin Boudnik <...@apache.org>
Subject Re: What kind of metrics / telemetry is an Apache project allowed to record?
Date Wed, 01 Nov 2017 17:21:15 GMT
The Privacy Policy (or a Disclaimer) is an important piece of this
equation, indeed. The interesting part is how to make sure a user sees
and understand it in case of projects like JMeter or Ignite where very
little visual interaction is happening between the end-user and the
software. Which I'd say is pretty generic case for the server-side
software platforms and applications.

--
  With regards,
Konstantin (Cos) Boudnik
2CAC 8312 4870 D885 8616  6115 220F 6980 1F27 E622

Disclaimer: Opinions expressed in this email are those of the author,
and do not necessarily represent the views of any company the author
might be affiliated with at the moment of writing.


On Wed, Nov 1, 2017 at 10:16 AM, Alex Harui <aharui@adobe.com.invalid> wrote:
> I'm not sure what other projects are looking for, I'm just explaining what
> we did that seems to be ok.  We think we are getting "good enough" data
> from our setup, but we know it isn't capturing everything.
>
> -Alex
>
> On 11/1/17, 9:07 AM, "Konstantin Boudnik" <cos@apache.org> wrote:
>
>>Alex,
>>
>>Please correct me if I am mistaken, but as I read this, the site
>>privacy policy info is quite different from ping-back feature some of
>>the projects need to have.
>>--
>>  With regards,
>>Konstantin (Cos) Boudnik
>>2CAC 8312 4870 D885 8616  6115 220F 6980 1F27 E622
>>
>>Disclaimer: Opinions expressed in this email are those of the author,
>>and do not necessarily represent the views of any company the author
>>might be affiliated with at the moment of writing.
>>
>>
>>On Wed, Nov 1, 2017 at 8:30 AM, Alex Harui <aharui@adobe.com.invalid>
>>wrote:
>>> You can go to flex.a.o and at the very bottom is a link to a "Privacy
>>> Policy" page.
>>>
>>> You can try out our Installer
>>>https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fflex.apac
>>>he.org%2Finstaller.html&data=02%7C01%7C%7C1c21114dced44ac5284f08d52142b54
>>>b%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636451492755997991&sdata=3
>>>qpx1%2FfmVNhqZFJQMqvMVwx1OqQB9YGLn9tk4Y2m2aU%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>>> HTH,
>>> -Alex
>>>
>>> On 10/31/17, 11:06 PM, "Emilian Bold" <emilian.bold@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> IANAL, but recording OS info or plugins might require an explicit
>>>>consent of the users. You might find [1] to be useful for the
>>>>background information.
>>>>
>>>>I can't find the link you referred to with "[1]".
>>>>
>>>>> Apache Flex uses Google Analytics.  We worked with the mentors to get
>>>>disclaimers in the right place.
>>>>
>>>>This is a start. Any place this is documented?
>>>>
>>>>Still, can we count on no INFRA help? What about adding our own backend?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>--emi
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 9:59 PM, Alex Harui <aharui@adobe.com.invalid>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>> Apache Flex uses Google Analytics.  We worked with the mentors to get
>>>>> disclaimers in the right place.
>>>>> Apache Flex also has an installation program to assist users in
>>>>>installing
>>>>> our releases.  Folks who use it are also warned that the Installer
>>>>>will
>>>>> hit a URL tracked by GA when the install fails or succeeds.  It gives
>>>>>us
>>>>> some idea of who is using our product, but doesn't catch anyone who
>>>>>just
>>>>> grabs the bits off the mirrors.  Again the mentors helped us get the
>>>>>right
>>>>> disclaimers in the right places.
>>>>>
>>>>> FWIW, the Apache Flex Installation program can be easily repurposed by
>>>>> other projects.  It basically runs a subset of Apache Ant in a
>>>>>graphical
>>>>> UI.  You setup an XML file of releases that contain an xml file of Ant
>>>>> commands that move files into place and then it hits a URL when done.
>>>>>It
>>>>> only works on Mac and Windows though.  Our few Linux users use the
>>>>>same
>>>>> Ant script to install but don't hit a URL.  But such a thing might be
>>>>> allowable.
>>>>>
>>>>> HTH,
>>>>> -Alex
>>>>>
>>>>> On 10/31/17, 11:27 AM, "Konstantin Boudnik" <cos@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>We are in a very similar situation with Apache Ignite, where we'd
like
>>>>>>to track the usage stats of the project. But we really don't want
>>>>>>anything fancy, but to know the number of the installations and their
>>>>>>geo-spread. Incidentally, we don't even want to keep the info once
the
>>>>>>stats were derived and clearly aren't interested in users IP address
>>>>>>beyond the general vicinity of it (e.g. UK, Russia, US, and so on).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>IANAL, but recording OS info or plugins might require an explicit
>>>>>>consent of the users. You might find [1] to be useful for the
>>>>>>background information.
>>>>>>--
>>>>>>  With regards,
>>>>>>Konstantin (Cos) Boudnik
>>>>>>2CAC 8312 4870 D885 8616  6115 220F 6980 1F27 E622
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Disclaimer: Opinions expressed in this email are those of the author,
>>>>>>and do not necessarily represent the views of any company the author
>>>>>>might be affiliated with at the moment of writing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 2:56 PM, Emilian Bold <emilian.bold@gmail.com>
>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We have very little metrics from ASF for Apache JMeter and the
best
>>>>>>> source seems to be a 3rd party site that has a popular plugin
portal
>>>>>>> and records more information.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is a pretty sad state of affairs:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * downloads are not counted very accurately. I discovered there
are
>>>>>>> some text logs on
>>>>>>>https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww-u
>>>>>>>s.
>>>>>>>ap
>>>>>>>ache.org%2Fdyn%2Fstats%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C2f3fbb2a870e4fb01f7108d52
>>>>>>>08
>>>>>>>d1
>>>>>>>712%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636450712715729336&s
>>>>>>>da
>>>>>>>ta
>>>>>>>=vyzVBc03mnuLwQHWlaQjZQR2Dxziaez%2BnI9yVlzldFQ%3D&reserved=0
but
>>>>>>>these
>>>>>>>are
>>>>>>> very approximate and the mirrors send no logs back to Apache
for
>>>>>>> centralisation or such.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * website logs are on-demand only. I see the ASF does use Google
>>>>>>> Analytics as per
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.
>>>>>>>ap
>>>>>>>ac
>>>>>>>he.org%2Ffoundation%2Fpolicies%2Fprivacy.html&data=02%7C01%7C%7C2f3fb
>>>>>>>b2
>>>>>>>a8
>>>>>>>70e4fb01f7108d5208d1712%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C
>>>>>>>63
>>>>>>>64
>>>>>>>50712715729336&sdata=4M%2FHlnH9ujWeNOdVA4O%2FrDawh0w50A6QTCUYOlYxdo0%
>>>>>>>3D
>>>>>>>&r
>>>>>>>eserved=0 but individual
>>>>>>> projects don't (can't?) so we only have server logs(?)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It would be interesting to
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * record version information, operating system, popular plugins
>>>>>>>ourselves
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * allow users to send an error "to us" when it happens (error
>>>>>>>reporting).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, what kind of privacy policy must we follow for such a feature
>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>> how can INFRA help us with a server to receive these messages?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Having more info about the current state and the trend of our
user
>>>>>>> base would allow some better planning since everybody is
>>>>>>> time-constrained.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Having this info under our control would allow us to actually
>>>>>>>follow a
>>>>>>> given privacy policy instead of relying on a 3rd party site that
>>>>>>>does
>>>>>>> not even *have* a privacy policy.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Some of these questions apply to Apache NetBeans too, as we have
a
>>>>>>> very nice error reporting mechanism there with a custom server
>>>>>>>backend
>>>>>>> for detecting duplicates, statistics and such.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --emi
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>
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>

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