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From "John D. Ament" <john.d.am...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Absolving the IPMC of IP Clearances
Date Mon, 22 May 2017 03:10:16 GMT
On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 10:19 PM Chris Mattmann <mattmann@apache.org> wrote:

> Thanks Craig. Yeah I think this needs some mulling over. I’ll read the
> below, and get back to folks.
>

I had found this link as well with my searching, specifically to respond to
Craig's note on incubator about this subject.  Glad he found it as well.

I suspect that the note to the incubator around guidelines never happened,
or that note is what lead to the 72 hour lazy consensus vote.  Though at
the same time, this may just be a call to help build those guidelines to
give proper guidance on who to consult.


>
>
> As an FYI my backlog for this position is already growing, so to manage
> expectations, and so that
>
> folks don’t expect immediate replies on this stuff, I can imagine at the
> current rate of things to
> consider we are perhaps a month or two or three from some of these
> decisions being made. I’ll
> do them as fast as I can with as much input from everyone as I can.
>
>
>

Yep - fully understood.  Would it help to get these things into JIRA?


> Thanks for sourcing this Craig.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *Craig Russell <apache.clr@gmail.com>
> *Reply-To: *"legal-discuss@apache.org" <legal-discuss@apache.org>
> *Date: *Sunday, May 21, 2017 at 6:30 PM
> *To: *"legal-discuss@apache.org" <legal-discuss@apache.org>
> *Subject: *Re: Absolving the IPMC of IP Clearances
>
>
>
> The IP Clearance has some history. I did a bit of archeology and found
> some interesting bits from ca. 2008. And some more from the year
> immediately after the Incubator was formed.
>
>
>
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INCUBATOR-74
>
>
>
>
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/200804.mbox/%3c2C7D21B3-CA23-4086-809C-3B5ECC8EE7D5@gbiv.com%3e
>
>
>
> http://incubator.apache.org/ip-clearance/httpd-mod_domain-clearance.html
>
>
>
> Permalink
> <https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/4a5e5b8e64eabd4b9c34db1538798e7b4f83278cdecfb9b634d8947c@1208933523@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E>
>
>
>
> This is from
> http://www.apache.org/foundation/records/minutes/2003/board_minutes_2003_12_17.txt
>
>
>
> B. Discussion: code imports directly into projects vs incubation
>
>        (e.g. maven-wagon and ws-fx)
>
>
>
>        A discussion was had on how codebases arrive at the ASF.  Last
>
>        year, the Board created the Apache Incubator Project to deal
>
>        with these incoming codebases, primary to ensure that the
>
>        proper IP guarantees have been made, and also to ensure that
>
>        any community arriving with the code is aware of ASF processes
>
>        and requirements.
>
>
>
>        However, there are many cases where codebases happen to have
>
>        been elsewhere by ASF committers, which makes it much easier to
>
>        "bring the code [into the ASF]". The Board is crafting
>
>        guidelines for when a codebase can be directly imported and
>
>        verified by a PMC, and when it is required to use the Incubator
>
>        for that process. Information will be posted to
>
>        general@incubator.apache.org when those guidelines have been
>
>        completed.
>
>
>
> I have run out of time now to do more investigation, but please rest
> assured that many people have been involved over the years in the issues
> related to bringing code bases into the ASF and whatever we want to change,
> it's not a trivial task.
>
>
>
> Craig
>
>
>
>
>
> On May 21, 2017, at 2:13 PM, John D. Ament <johndament@apache.org> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 5:12 PM Roman Shaposhnik <roman@shaposhnik.org>
> wrote:
>
> On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 2:06 PM, John D. Ament <johndament@apache.org>
> wrote:
> > All, Specifically the new VP Legal,
> >
> > The IPMC has struggled for a while being the gatekeepers for IP Clearance
> > for the entire foundation.  Several of us over the years have raised
> > concerns with this process.  It probably made sense when all new code
> went
> > through the incubator, but these days much new code goes directly to the
> > TLPs accepting them.
> >
> > I'd like to question this practice, and see if there's any additional
> > guidance on how to handle IP Clearances, is this really an IPMC
> > responsibility?
>
> Here's the way I think about it: a whole bunch of code coming into the
> community
> all at once has two implications:
>    1. licensing
>    2. community support
>
> Licensing is easy when that whole bunch of code was written on behalf of a
> given
> legal entity (lets say by employees of the corp X that also happen to
> be part of
> the community). In this case SGA from corp X is all that's required to
> license the
> code to ASF. TLPs should file it with secretary@ and not really
> involve IPMC much
> at all.
>
> Licensing gets complicated if that whole bunch of code was written by a
> group
> of committers without a clear IP provenance (such as an explicit ICLA). In
> this
> case it actually dovetails into #2 on my list -- so lets talk about that.
>
> #2 is when its not just code that will be joining a TLP, but a brand
> new sub-community.
> In those cases actual incubation may make sense. This is the only
> place where I could
> see IPMC getting involved for a good reason.
>
> Makes sense?
>
>
>
> Agreed - except that I think #2 is a question that the receiving project
> needs to decide - does this new project need to incubate or immediately
> become part of our TLP.  Recent history indicates most of the time, its
> straight to the TLP.  Obviously the IPMC is there to help if they choose to
> incubate.
>
>
>
>
> Thanks,
> Roman.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
>
> Craig L Russell
> Secretary, Apache Software Foundation
> clr@apache.org http://db.apache.org/jdo
>
>
>

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