Return-Path: X-Original-To: apmail-legal-discuss-archive@www.apache.org Delivered-To: apmail-legal-discuss-archive@www.apache.org Received: from mail.apache.org (hermes.apache.org [140.211.11.3]) by minotaur.apache.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D5EE218CE9 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 2015 23:30:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 91452 invoked by uid 500); 3 Aug 2015 23:30:13 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-legal-discuss-archive@apache.org Received: (qmail 91275 invoked by uid 500); 3 Aug 2015 23:30:13 -0000 Mailing-List: contact legal-discuss-help@apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: Reply-To: legal-discuss@apache.org List-Id: Delivered-To: mailing list legal-discuss@apache.org Received: (qmail 91264 invoked by uid 99); 3 Aug 2015 23:30:13 -0000 Received: from Unknown (HELO spamd1-us-west.apache.org) (209.188.14.142) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Mon, 03 Aug 2015 23:30:13 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spamd1-us-west.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at spamd1-us-west.apache.org) with ESMTP id B6E12D9EF0 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 2015 23:30:12 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at spamd1-us-west.apache.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 3.001 X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.001 tagged_above=-999 required=6.31 tests=[HTML_MESSAGE=3, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=disabled Received: from mx1-us-east.apache.org ([10.40.0.8]) by localhost (spamd1-us-west.apache.org [10.40.0.7]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LRYvsdVyaebK for ; Mon, 3 Aug 2015 23:29:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp471.redcondor.net (smtp471.redcondor.net [208.80.204.71]) by mx1-us-east.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at mx1-us-east.apache.org) with ESMTPS id BD90B42E74 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 2015 23:29:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mailproxy11.neonova.net ([137.118.22.76]) by smtp471.redcondor.net ({7f0b985a-ad08-4a46-93f1-996e808178a5}) via TCP (outbound) with ESMTP id 20150803232847745_0471; Mon, 03 Aug 2015 23:28:47 +0000 X-RC-FROM: Received: from [192.168.1.6] (ip72-201-43-179.ph.ph.cox.net [72.201.43.179]) (Authenticated sender: ralph_goers@dslextreme.com) by mailproxy11.neonova.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id EF4DD360051; Mon, 3 Aug 2015 19:28:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Ralph Goers Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_6C396012-E839-4DC1-80D8-B013D739D4C2" Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2102\)) Subject: Re: Third Party FOSS licenses Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2015 16:28:41 -0700 References: <09c801d0cd7b$53a220b0$fae66210$@rosenlaw.com> <09da01d0cd88$9da8dc00$d8fa9400$@rosenlaw.com> <09e301d0cd8d$d2253140$766f93c0$@rosenlaw.com> <09ec01d0cd97$2ff670a0$8fe351e0$@rosenlaw.com> <09ed01d0cd9c$1b4e1a40$51ea4ec0$@rosenlaw.com> <0a6c01d0cdfe$1406ed90$3c14c8b0$@rosenlaw.com> <0aae01d0ce12$213885f0$63a991d0$@rosenlaw.com> <0b9501d0ce35$ed909b10$c8b1d130$@rosenlaw.com> To: Legal Discuss , Lawrence Rosen In-Reply-To: <0b9501d0ce35$ed909b10$c8b1d130$@rosenlaw.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2102) X-MAG-OUTBOUND: ikano.redcondor.net@137.118.22.64/27 --Apple-Mail=_6C396012-E839-4DC1-80D8-B013D739D4C2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Aug 3, 2015, at 2:46 PM, Lawrence Rosen > wrote: >=20 > And I'm not recommending GPL code unless it is accompanied by an = "exception" for Larger Works. No Apache PMC is that amateurish as to = accept dangerous crap. So it certainly sounds like you agree with Category X and how it is = being handled. Previously you were lumping all the categories together. > =20 > And anyway, such decisions are not yours and mine to make, but for = each PMC and each customer to decide for itself. That's the policy = change. > =20 So presumably this is for Category B since you agree with restricting = Category X and Category A isn=E2=80=99t really restricted in any = meaningful way. While you are free to disagree with the current policy, I believe most = of us prefer it because it is easier for users. All they need to do is = to go to http://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html#criteria = and understand our = motivation and then review = http://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html#category-b = to understand how = we handle these licenses. The change you are advocating would eliminate = that information and require users to look at each individual project to = understand how this is handled. I don=E2=80=99t believe our users would = want that and would lead them to distrust all ASF software as it will = increase their effort to be able to use it. Furthermore, I don=E2=80=99t = believe the vast majority of our projects want that. Consistency and = structure are things software developers appreciate. If you believe = that is not the case please provide a list of some projects that are = requesting a change. Ralph= --Apple-Mail=_6C396012-E839-4DC1-80D8-B013D739D4C2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
On Aug 3, 2015, at 2:46 PM, Lawrence Rosen = <lrosen@rosenlaw.com> wrote:

 And I'm not recommending GPL code unless it is = accompanied by an "exception" for Larger Works. No Apache PMC is that = amateurish as to accept dangerous = crap.

So it certainly sounds like you agree = with Category X and how it is being handled. Previously you were lumping = all the categories together.

 
And anyway, such = decisions are not yours and mine to make, but for each PMC and each = customer to decide for itself. That's the policy change.
 

So presumably this is for Category B since you agree with = restricting Category X and Category A isn=E2=80=99t really restricted in = any meaningful way.

While you are free to disagree with the current policy, I = believe most of us prefer it because it is easier for users. All they = need to do is to go to http://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html#criteria and= understand our motivation and then review http://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html#category-b t= o understand how we handle these licenses.  The change you are = advocating would eliminate that information and require users to look at = each individual project to understand how this is handled. I don=E2=80=99t= believe our users would want that and would lead them to distrust all = ASF software as it will increase their effort to be able to use it. = Furthermore, I don=E2=80=99t believe the vast majority of our projects = want that. Consistency and structure are things software developers = appreciate.  If you believe that is not the case please provide a = list of some projects that are requesting a change.

Ralph
= --Apple-Mail=_6C396012-E839-4DC1-80D8-B013D739D4C2--