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From: "Lawrence Rosen" <lrosen@rosenlaw.com>
To: <legal-discuss@apache.org>
Cc: "Lawrence Rosen" <lrosen@rosenlaw.com>
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 <CAG_bHowkNXTRUSrCHZBtp=u+nAwX5K7hpHEWpLmCt=g3O7H9TQ@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: RE: on consensus, and serenity
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 13:15:53 -0700
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Tim Williams wrote:
> I'm curious how we can work ourselves out of this nagging cycle
> of Larry encouraging us to be more liberal in our licenses because
> we legally can and us responding with we don't want to even if
> we could legally get away with it?

1. By responding with a *rational* reason, regardless of its legality. I =
have never been comfortable with kids saying "but I don't want to."

or=20

2. By forcing me off this Apache public list onto other public forums =
for influencing FOSS behavior.

Thank you for hearing my voice for much longer than four months.

/Larry


-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Williams [mailto:williamstw@gmail.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2015 12:54 PM
To: legal-discuss@apache.org
Subject: on consensus, and serenity

I'm curious how we can work ourselves out of this nagging cycle of Larry =
encouraging us to be more liberal in our licenses because we legally can =
and us responding with we don't want to even if we could legally get =
away with it?

By my count, four out of the previous four months have seen this same =
cycle in only slightly different forms.  I'm confident a quick mail =
search would find at least as many months out of the previous four =
years.  And, these tend to be long (>50) threads.

I support challenging the status quo, questioning policies, etc. In =
fact, I believe it makes us stronger and a good rigorous debate on core =
values helps newcomers to understand the Apache Way and our culture in a =
deeper way.  It's healthy community behavior and old-timers mostly don't =
mind helping folks understand the "why" behind a given policy.

However, it's not healthy to keep asking the same question, over and =
over, even while receiving the same answer each time.  It's neither fun =
nor fruitful. Were it a technical issue, we could reason through it and =
move on much more easily.

So, I wonder how we might re-assure Larry that his voice has been heard =
but also allow us not to keep reading the same argument over and over?  =
I've thought perhaps a referendum membership vote (with steve) might =
help? or maybe an explicit vote by the board [vs implicit by keeping Jim =
around:)] or, ?

Thanks,
--tim

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