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Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2015 08:38:11 -0500
Message-ID: 
 <CACsi250G+Mw7yUtAt1Hjw_6QpH=5_UuaXVi4TsJuw2dUKCxEQw@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Proposal: Disclosure of patents by Apache projects
From: William A Rowe Jr <wrowe@rowe-clan.net>
To: legal-discuss@apache.org
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On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 7:59 AM, Shane Curcuru <asf@shanecurcuru.org> wrote:

> On 6/3/15 8:44 AM, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
> > But what's the point of any of this?  There's no reason to require
> Sneaky Author to enumerate anything because via contribution via the AL,
> they have granted a license to anything they have necessarily infringed by
> the contribution (or combined contribution and existing work)
> >
> > And I as the recipient don't really care - I know that via the patent
> grant in the AL, Sneaky Author can't come after me for any patents they
> hold (enumerated or not) that read on the work they contributed to.
> >
> > Is there a real problem we're trying to solve?
>
> I'm not aware of any Apache project asking this question, no.  It seems
> Bill might have a case related to this thread, which we can address when
> it comes up.
>

Indeed, there is no sneaky author.  The patents are public filings.  No
need for tinfoil hats or detection gadgets.  Those patent use rights are
granted, by the very design of the AL, to every downstream consumer.

Apparently, none of you spend too much time with your corp-consumer
legal teams.  It's brutal.

Pretty much everything out there, IP-wise, bollixes the works.  Stray
non-conforming license?  That's out.  Stray patent claim?  Straight out.

So yes, there is a project which is trying to offer code-with-patent-license
to the ASF, and has succeeded at their CCLA plus CLAs and would like
to wokr out the best way to inform / reassure users that these particular
patent claims are known to apply and are granted for use to whatever
downstream consumer wants to use the code.

Is this really so difficult?

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On W=
ed, Jun 3, 2015 at 7:59 AM, Shane Curcuru <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:asf@shanecurcuru.org" target=3D"_blank">asf@shanecurcuru.org</a>&gt;=
</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .=
8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class=3D"">On 6/3/15=
 8:44 AM, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:<br>
&gt; But what&#39;s the point of any of this?=C2=A0 There&#39;s no reason t=
o require Sneaky Author to enumerate anything because via contribution via =
the AL, they have granted a license to anything they have necessarily infri=
nged by the contribution (or combined contribution and existing work)<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; And I as the recipient don&#39;t really care - I know that via the pat=
ent grant in the AL, Sneaky Author can&#39;t come after me for any patents =
they hold (enumerated or not) that read on the work they contributed to.<br=
>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Is there a real problem we&#39;re trying to solve?<br>
<br>
</span>I&#39;m not aware of any Apache project asking this question, no.=C2=
=A0 It seems<br>
Bill might have a case related to this thread, which we can address when<br=
>
it comes up.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Indeed, there is no sneaky=
 author.=C2=A0 The patents are public filings.=C2=A0 No=C2=A0</div><div>nee=
d for tinfoil hats or detection gadgets.=C2=A0 Those patent use rights are=
=C2=A0</div><div>granted, by the very design of the AL, to every downstream=
 consumer.</div><div><br></div><div>Apparently, none of you spend too much =
time with your corp-consumer<br>legal teams.=C2=A0 It&#39;s brutal.</div><d=
iv><br></div><div>Pretty much everything out there, IP-wise, bollixes the w=
orks.=C2=A0 Stray</div><div>non-conforming license?=C2=A0 That&#39;s out.=
=C2=A0 Stray patent claim?=C2=A0 Straight out.</div><div><br></div><div>So =
yes, there is a project which is trying to offer code-with-patent-license</=
div><div>to the ASF, and has succeeded at their CCLA plus CLAs and would li=
ke</div><div>to wokr out the best way to inform / reassure users that these=
 particular</div><div>patent claims are known to apply and are granted for =
use to whatever</div><div>downstream consumer wants to use the code.</div><=
div><br></div><div>Is this really so difficult?</div><div><br></div></div><=
/div></div>

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