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From "Lawrence Rosen" <lro...@rosenlaw.com>
Subject RE: Adoption of new Software and Document License
Date Sat, 06 Jun 2015 23:31:00 GMT
Thanks, Joe. 

It would be even crazier than normal for ASF to ask me "to step up and do the work" that needs
to be done. I can't even spell most of the Apache trademarks, much less understand what magic
that software performs. If YOU don't do it, it won't get done.

/Larry


-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Brockmeier [mailto:jzb@zonker.net] 
Sent: Saturday, June 6, 2015 3:42 PM
To: legal-discuss@apache.org
Subject: Re: Adoption of new Software and Document License

Larry, congratulations on your marriage. I'm glad society has progressed since the 90s.

I believe I see a mis-match in what Rich has asked and what you are proposing. Rich seems
to be asking for you to step up and do the work you would like to see done. You are proposing
a policy that would requires others to do this, no?

As this seems important to you, I would not wish to stand in the way of *you doing the work*.

If you wish this to exist but are not volunteering to do the work, then it's probably time
to let it go. 

On Sat, Jun 6, 2015, at 05:58 PM, Lawrence Rosen wrote:
> Rich Bowen wrote:
> 
> > It is utterly beyond me why we continue to have this identical conversation again
and again. 
> 
> Rich, I have done what you requested. I submitted explicit proposed 
> policies so that the board and members and PMCs and our customers can 
> discuss them rationally and perhaps determine for themselves.
> 
>  
> 
> All I'm waiting on is this: Maybe you will read what I've submitted 
> and propose amendments? Or vote on them publicly outside of executive 
> committee after discussion?
> 
>  
> 
> You're right. I'm not "new here." I know "how this works." Democracy 
> is a word usually applied to it. Even if repetitive. I was gay-married 
> a year ago because attitudes when Apache was incorporated in the 
> 1990's finally were changed by stubborn people.
> 
>  
> 
> Best regards,
> 
>  
> 
> /Larry
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> From: Rich Bowen [mailto:rbowen@rcbowen.com]
> Sent: Saturday, June 6, 2015 2:29 PM
> To: legal-discuss@apache.org; Lawrence Rosen
> Subject: Re: Adoption of new Software and Document License
> 
>  
> 
> It is utterly beyond me why we continue to have this identical 
> conversation again and again.
> 
> Larry, if you want to document, for each of our projects, what 
> standards and patents they implement, just friken do it. We are a 
> do-ocracy. Submit a patch. Quit asserting that *someone* should do it. 
> That is not how things get done here.
> 
> You have made it abundantly clear what you think should happen. Many 
> people have made it clear what they think of your ideas. But if you 
> want anything to happen, you have to submit a patch. You're not new 
> here. You know how this works.
> 
> On Jun 6, 2015 4:29 PM, "Lawrence Rosen" <lrosen@rosenlaw.com 
> <mailto:lrosen@rosenlaw.com> > wrote:
> 
> [Someone asked me a good off-list question about the new W3C Software 
> and Document License. Here is my on-list response, which is offered 
> with no warranty nor as attorney-client advice. Ask your own 
> attorney!]
> 
>  
> 
> If Apache members or customers are much worried about liability for 
> contributory patent infringement merely by redistributing some Apache 
> software, read the below quotation from the 2014 Jury Instructions of 
> the Federal Circuit Bar Association (and the cases listed there).
> 
>  
> 
> It seems that the distributor of an ASF software product that 
> implements a widely-used, patent and copyright royalty-free W3C 
> standard is not likely to be held liable as a contributory infringer 
> for other miscellaneous patents that we later discover happen to read 
> on that software.
> 
>  
> 
> That's usually good for ASF and distributors! 
> 
>  
> 
> And it is another good reason to "advertise" in our NOTICE file that 
> our software implements specific FOSS-compatible W3C standards capable 
> of substantial non-infringing uses, in compliance with the new W3C license.
> 
>  
> 
> /Larry
> 
>  
> 
> From http://www.modeljuryinstructions.com/tag/contributory-infringement/: 
> 
>  
> 
> B.3.3. INDIRECT INFRINGEMENT—CONTRIBUTORY INFRINGEMENT
> 
> [Patent holder] argues that [alleged infringer] is liable for 
> contributory infringement by contributing to the direct infringement 
> of the [ ] patent by [insert name or other description of direct infringer].
> As with direct infringement, you must determine contributory 
> infringement on a claim-by-claim basis.
> 
> [Alleged infringer] is liable for contributory infringement of a claim 
> if [patent holder] proves by a preponderance of the evidence:
> 
> (1)               [alleged infringer] sells, offers to sell, or imports
> within the United States a component of a product, or apparatus for 
> use in a process, during the time the [ ] patent is in force;
> 
> (2)               the component or apparatus has no substantial,
> noninfringing use;
> 
> (3)               the component or apparatus constitutes a material part
> of the invention;
> 
> (4)               [alleged infringer] is aware of the [ ] patent and
> knows that the [products or processes] for which the [component or 
> apparatus] has no other substantial use may be covered by a claim of  
> the [ ] patent or may satisfy a claim of the [ ] patent under the 
> doctrine of equivalents; and
> 
> (5)               that use directly infringes the claim.
> 
> In order to prove contributory infringement, [patent holder] must 
> prove that each of the above requirements is met. This proof of each 
> requirement must be by a preponderance of the evidence, i.e., that it 
> is more likely than not that each of the above requirements is met.
> 
>  
> 


Best,

jzb
--
Joe Brockmeier
jzb@zonker.net
Twitter: @jzb
http://www.dissociatedpress.net/

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