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From "Lawrence Rosen" <lro...@rosenlaw.com>
Subject RE: [License-discuss] [FTF-Legal] Proposal: Apache Third Party License Policy
Date Thu, 21 May 2015 17:13:33 GMT
Mike Milinkovich wrote:
> We love the fact that Tomcat uses ecj. I just knew nothing of the
> history, or of the ASF notice conventions, so it looked odd.
> Thanks for clarifying that.

Thanks very much Mike and Mark. I'm pleased that these have turned out to be
trivial to solve. Aggregating FOSS software *should* be trivial!

Asking Mike Milinkovich what he meant above: Do you also love that other
Apache projects use other Eclipse software in our aggregations? 

Can our projects freely aggregate with Eclipse software without infecting
our other contributions and distributed software?

IIUC, the only important things your Eclipse license require that aren't
essentially the same in our Apache License 2.0 are (1) that we inform people
of this incorporation of your software in our NOTICE file; and (2) that
anyone who modifies and redistributes *derivative works of Eclipse software*
must disclose the source code of *those derivative works*. 

Do I misunderstand your rules?

/Larry

P.S. Whether Apache projects decide for technical or other reasons to
actually include Eclipse software in their aggregations is NOT RELEVANT to
my questions. Please treat this as a one-time hypothetical.


-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Milinkovich [mailto:mike.milinkovich@eclipse.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2015 3:31 PM
To: Mark Thomas; legal-discuss@apache.org
Cc: Lawrence Rosen
Subject: Re: [License-discuss] [FTF-Legal] Proposal: Apache Third Party
License Policy


Oh my! Not at all. We love the fact that Tomcat uses ecj. I just knew
nothing of the history, or of the ASF notice conventions, so it looked odd.
Thanks for clarifying that.

Mike Milinkovich
mike.milinkovich@eclipse.org 
+1.613.220.3223
  Original Message
From: Mark Thomas
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2015 6:18 PM
To: legal-discuss@apache.org
Cc: Lawrence Rosen; mike.milinkovich@eclipse.org
Subject: Re: FW: [License-discuss] [FTF-Legal] Proposal: Apache Third Party
License Policy

For the record:

The Tomact 7 release notes call out the switch to the ECJ compiler (from
javac) for the default compiler for JSPs. This was a significant change
since it meant Tomcat could run with a JRE rather than a JDK and still
support JSPs.

The Tomcat 7 release notes (deliberately) make no reference to the licensing
of the ECJ compiler.

The Tomcat 7 and Tomcat 8 LICENSE files note the ECJ is licensed under EPL
v1 and contain a copy of that license.

The Tomcat 7 and Tomcat 8 NOTICE files note that JSP compilation is
implemented using software from Eclipse (i.e. ECJ).

The Tomcat dev community is a huge fan of ECJ.

If there is anything the Eclipse Foundation thinks the Tomcat dev community
is doing wrong in terms of the LICENSE and NOTICE entries for ECJ do let the
Tomcat dev community know at dev@tomcat.apache.org and we will put it right
asap.

Cheers,

Mark
(with his Tomcat committer hat on)

On 20/05/2015 22:51, Lawrence Rosen wrote:
> Forwarding.... /Larry
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Milinkovich [mailto:mike.milinkovich@eclipse.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2015 2:41 PM
> To: ftf-legal@fsfeurope.org; license-discuss@opensource.org
> Subject: Re: [License-discuss] [FTF-Legal] Proposal: Apache Third 
> Party License Policy
> 
> On 20/05/2015 4:40 PM, Lawrence Rosen wrote:
>> Apache Legal JIRA-218 asked:
>>>>>> My question is about whether "Eclipse Public License -v 1.0"
>>>>>> is compatible with our Apache License 2.0.
>>>>>> I couldn't find an answer
> onhttps://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html.
> 
> This was at addressed in the now apparently defunct ASF document 
> entitled "Drafted (and out of date) Third-Party Licensing Policy" that 
> Cliff Schmidt wrote years ago. You can still find the text of the document
at [1].
> Unfortunately the version that is linked from the Apache Legal page[2] 
> has somehow been mangled. As far as I know, that document was used for 
> quite a few years as the main guidance for Apache projects on these 
> topics. I am not quite sure why it was deprecated without a 
> replacement. The fact that a reference to the EPL wasn't migrated to [3]
just seems kinda weird.
> 
> In that document, the EPL was included in the list of "Category B: 
> Reciprocal Licenses". As I understand it, the guidance to ASF projects 
> was the EPL-licensed binaries could be distributed by Apache projects, 
> but that the source should be only available by reference. It is my 
> understanding that Apache projects do distribute EPL-licensed modules, 
> such as the Eclipse Compiler for Java (ecj).
> 
> One thing that seems sort of weird is that the release notes[4] for 
> Apache Tomcat 7 contains a notice(*) regarding the use of ecj under 
> the EPL. But the release notes[5] for Tomcat v8.0 does not contain the 
> notice, even though the "ecj-4.4.2.jar (Eclipse JDT Java compiler)" is 
> listed as a bundled dependency.
> 
> Hope that helps.
> 
> [1]
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/infrastructure/site/trunk/archive/leg
> al/3pa
> rty.mdtext
> [2] http://apache.org/legal/
> [3] http://apache.org/legal/resolved.html
> [4] https://tomcat.apache.org/tomcat-7.0-doc/RELEASE-NOTES.txt
> [5] https://tomcat.apache.org/tomcat-8.0-doc/RELEASE-NOTES.txt
> 
> (*) In addition, Tomcat 7.0 uses the Eclipse JDT Java compiler for 
> compiling JSP pages. This means you no longer need to have the 
> complete Java Development Kit (JDK) to run Tomcat, but a Java Runtime 
> Environment
> (JRE) is sufficient. The Eclipse JDT Java compiler is bundled with the 
> binary Tomcat distributions. Tomcat can also be configured to use the 
> compiler from the JDK to compile JSPs, or any other Java compiler 
> supported by Apache Ant.
> 
> --
> Mike Milinkovich
> mike.milinkovich@eclipse.org
> +1.613.220.3223 (mobile)
> 
> _______________________________________________
> License-discuss mailing list
> License-discuss@opensource.org
> http://projects.opensource.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/license-discus
> s
> 
> 
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