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From "Smith, McCoy" <mccoy.sm...@intel.com>
Subject RE: Error in Apache 2.0 License
Date Fri, 10 Apr 2015 16:25:22 GMT
The use of the verb "use" in that section looks to be a conditional limitation on the right
to of non-copyright owners to "make a copy" of copyrighted works, as enumerated in that section.

I suspect that learned counsel for ASF probably looked at it the same way when they decided
not to use the verb "use" in the Apache 2.0 copyright grant.  But they are welcome to correct
me if I am wrong.  I've heard rumors they have strong opinions on a number of license drafting
issues.

-----Original Message-----
From: Lawrence Rosen [mailto:lrosen@rosenlaw.com] 
Sent: Friday, April 10, 2015 9:11 AM
To: legal-discuss@apache.org
Cc: 'Madeleine Doan'; Lawrence Rosen
Subject: RE: Error in Apache 2.0 License

McCoy Smith wrote:
> [I say that as a US lawyer;  some jurisdictions include additional 
> rights
under copyright but AFAIK no jurisdiction includes "use" under copyrights; my non-US colleagues
are free to correct me].


What about 17 USC 117. /Larry


-----Original Message-----
From: Smith, McCoy [mailto:mccoy.smith@intel.com]
Sent: Friday, April 10, 2015 8:18 AM
To: legal-discuss@apache.org
Cc: Madeleine Doan
Subject: RE: Error in Apache 2.0 License

"Use" is an enumerated right in patent law;  as Greg Stein already pointed out (referencing
Wikipedia) it is not an enumerated right in copyright law.
See, e.g., 17 USC 106.  Apache 2.0, like most well-written licenses, tracks identically the
enumerated rights for each individual intellectual property right that is granted, using the
verbs set forth in the respective statutes.

[I say that as a US lawyer;  some jurisdictions include additional rights under copyright
but AFAIK no jurisdiction includes "use" under copyrights; my non-US colleagues are free to
correct me].

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Eckart de Castilho [mailto:rec@apache.org]
Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2015 11:37 PM
To: legal-discuss@apache.org
Cc: Madeleine Doan
Subject: Re: Error in Apache 2.0 License

If I understand Madeleine's blog entry correctly, she claims that the "Grant of a Patent License"
can only be made for sections of the work the are in-fact formally patented. She believes
that would not cover most of the Apache work, since (presumably) no patents have been filed
for most of it.
Her conclusion is, that there is no express permission given to use the non-patented parts
of the work. 

I guess the question is whether a "Grant of Patent License" can be issued on non-patented
work.

-- Richard

On 10.04.2015, at 01:52, Smith, McCoy <mccoy.smith@intel.com> wrote:

> In fact, Apache 2.0 includes an express patent license to use, as 
> there is
to all the enumerated patent rights under 35 USC 271(a):
> 
> 
> 3. Grant of Patent License. Subject to the terms and conditions of 
> this
License, each Contributor hereby grants to You a perpetual, worldwide, non-exclusive, no-charge,
royalty-free, irrevocable (except as stated in this section) patent license to make, have
made, *use,* offer to sell, sell, import, and otherwise transfer the Work, where such license
applies only to those patent claims licensable by such Contributor that are necessarily infringed
by their Contribution(s) alone or by combination of their
Contribution(s) with the Work to which such Contribution(s) was submitted.
If You institute patent litigation against any entity (including a cross-claim or counterclaim
in a lawsuit) alleging that the Work or a Contribution incorporated within the Work constitutes
direct or contributory patent infringement, then any patent licenses granted to You under
this License for that Work shall terminate as of the date such litigation is filed.
>  
> From: Ted Dunning [mailto:ted.dunning@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2015 2:23 PM
> To: legal-discuss@apache.org
> Cc: Madeleine Doan
> Subject: Re: Error in Apache 2.0 License
>  
>  
> I am typically quite hesitant to contradict Greg on anything, but 
> there is
a patent grant section in the Apache license.
>  
> What Greg says is literally correct however, in that the Apache 
> Software
License as an agreement between Apache Software Foundation and the user only grants a copyright.
>  
> But section 3 notifies the user that there is a patent grant from all 
> of
the contributors to Apache software.  This is one of the most important aspects of the Apache
license.  As Madeleine correctly intimated and Greg amplified you need both a right to copy
and a right to use to have open software.  The Apache license grants the right to copy and
tells you about the right to use that you already have received by virtue of contributors
contributing software under their contributor agreement.
>  
> So the Apache licensing scheme does cover both  right to copy and 
> right to
use.
>  
>  
>  
> On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 3:45 AM, Greg Stein <gstein@gmail.com> wrote:
> [ moving to legal-discuss@apache; bcc: original list ]
>  
> Madeleine: the Apache License is a *copyright* license. That only 
> deals
with making copies, derivations, and several other rights, under US copyright law[1]. These
laws do not impinge on your *use* of the software, once you've obtained a copy of the software
under the provided license.
>  
> *Use* of the software can only be limited via contract law. (though I 
> can imagine a scenario where people attempt to limit use under the 
> "public performance" and "public display" rights given by copyright 
> law; I believe the AGPL is trying this, but the Apache License 
> certainly does not)
>  
> I have redirected your query to the legal-discuss@apache.org mailing list.
The people here can correct my first-response, and provide answers to any further questions
you may have.
>  
> Cheers,
> -g
>  
> [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_law_of_the_United_States
>  
> On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 9:41 PM, Madeleine Doan
<madeleinedoan144@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>  
> I noticed when reading the Apache 2.0 License Agreement that in 
> Section 2
it read:
>  
> "2. Grant of Copyright License. Subject to the terms and conditions of
this License, each Contributor hereby grants to You a perpetual, worldwide, non-exclusive,
no-charge, royalty-free, irrevocable copyright license to reproduce, prepare Derivative Works
of, publicly display, publicly perform, sublicense, and distribute the Work and such Derivative
Works in Source or Object form."
>  
> I noticed that unlike Section 3 (which gives permissions to use the
patented parts of the software), Section 2 gives the permissions for just about everything
but the actual use of the software under the copyright license grant. This could cause trouble
for the actual end user of the software.
>  
> Could someone please fix this mistake?
>  
> Here is the link to the License:
>  
> https://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0.html
>  
> I've elaborated more upon the subject here on my personal blog:
>  
> http://madeleinedsblogs.wix.com/productivewastedtime#!possible-mishap-
> in-apaches-2-license/cu6f
>  
> My email address is madeleinedoan144@gmail.com Thank you and have a 
> nice day, Madeleine
>  
> *Disclaimer:
> Madeleine Doan does NOT make any warranties, does not ensure the 
> accuracy
of information, and disclaims all liabilities arising from (but is not limited to) her writings,
suggestions, recommendations, information and accuracy. This is for informational purposesONLY
and is NOT meant to be legal advice in any way.


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