I wonder also if there is a requirement for the "build" in "download, build and test"... in which case it's just download and test against the legal requirements for a release...

the build and verify the built software works is mostly a moral requirement... but being technical and moral folks we seem to favour focusing on this part

On 29 May 2014 17:02, Stephen Connolly <stephen.alan.connolly@gmail.com> wrote:
My understanding of the "test" in "download, build and test" is test the source bundle against the *legal* requirements. I don't think there is any legal requirement for us to ship working software... only moral requirements ;-)

On 29 May 2014 16:48, Alex Harui <aharui@adobe.com> wrote:
(Trying to reel this thread back into productivity)

Apache is supposed to be a meritocracy where issues are discussed on the
merits.  Short answers of just "No" without justification doesn't help,
nor does telling someone they are pounding their head in the sand.

Also, can we table the discussion of how we might change these
requirements, or at least, fork it to a new thread?   I imagine changing
these requirements will take a long time, and I am more interested in
understanding what we can do under the current rules.

So Jim, please explain to me, a new member, what are the "merits" of
requiring that PMC members download, build, and test?  Is it just
statistical probability that some platform or machine-specific issue might
get found before release?

What does it mean to "test"?  Can it be a simple smoke test, or testing of
some simple application against the built sources?

Can these steps be done automatically and just generate a report for
review or is there some value to having to manually execute these steps?


On 5/29/14 8:31 AM, "Emmanuel Lécharny" <elecharny@gmail.com> wrote:

>Le 29/05/2014 16:04, Jim Jagielski a écrit :
>> FWIW, my response could be:
>>   You can pound your head in the sand, expecting that every release
>>   does not need to be downladed, compiled, tested by every PMC member
>>   casting a +1, or simply accept the idea that, yes, an automated and
>>   potentially buggy CI process is no substitute for a healthy, engaged
>>   and responsible PMC.
>> See how I did that?
>But I can check a CI script, when I can't be on every PMC's back to
>double check that they are doing their homeworks.
>Anticpiating your answer, yes, I know, *if* I do the chekcs myself, I
>will be able to know that X Y or Z is not fulfilling his/her duty. And
>now what ? Should I tell them to either comply, or stop casting a vote ?
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