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From Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net>
Subject Re: Release Policy
Date Sat, 24 May 2014 17:41:18 GMT

On May 23, 2014, at 1:51 PM, Brian LeRoux wrote:

> Ok, so end user software needs a vote to be a release and all projects are doing this
without exception. If they are that is bad. Got it. 
> 
> Earlier: 
> 
> "But the point already got covered and answered dozens of times imo. The answer is that
the ALv2 protects the foundation and also the release manager already for all bona fides cases.
End of story."
> 
> Is the above statement incorrect also? 
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 3:19 PM, Mark Thomas <markt@apache.org> wrote:
> On 23/05/2014 21:04, Joe Bowser wrote:
> > On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 12:46 PM, Andrea Pescetti <pescetti@apache.org> wrote:
> >> On 23/05/2014 Brian LeRoux wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Furthermore some projects such as OpenOffice mentioned
> >>> earlier do not follow the policy.
> >>
> >>
> >> OpenOffice does follow the policy. The only "special" thing OpenOffice did
> >> is to advertise development snapshots towards version 4.1 (these are NOT
> >> releases! we conduct formal votes on ALL releases, including beta releases!)
> >> outside the dev mailing list since we have a dedicated QA mailing lists and
> >> a testers community that does not coincide with our developers. And this was
> >> discussed in advance with both the board and the infrastructure lists.
> >>
> >
> > So, a snapshot is not a release?
> 
> A snapshot is a release if only if it has been voted on as such by the
> PMC. It would also have to be tagged as part of the release which to my
> mind means it isn't really a snapshot. However the label that is
> attached to the release (RC, beta, stable, snapshot, etc.) is
> irrelevant. What matters is did the PMC vote on it. It the PMC voted
> (and assuming the rest of the release policy was followed) and the vote
> passed, it is a release. If that didn't happen then it isn't a release.
> 
> 
> > The problem is that there is one rule
> > for certain projects that have the board's favour and another for
> > projects that the board chooses to pick on for unknown reasons.
> 
> Please provide some evidence to back up that assertion. I have been
> following a reasonable proportion if the discussion around Cordova and
> releases and, while I have seen plenty of evidence that the Cordova
> community doesn't like the constraints imposed by the ASF release
> policy, I have seen no evidence of the board doing anything other than
> requiring Cordova to follow the same release policy every other ASF
> project is expected to follow.
> 
> If you are aware of any other ASF project not following the ASF release
> policy then please make the board aware. The board does not actively
> monitor the day to day activities of every project. If there are
> problems they rely on the VP to make them aware via the quarterly
> reports and if that route fails they rely on others in and around the
> project to bring the problem to their attention.
> 
> > Why isn't a snapshot build a release?
> 
> Short answer - because the PMC didn't vote. Long answer - see above.
> 
> In this particular case this was not an OpenOffice release because it
> was not advertised to the end-user community for that software. It is
> perfectly within the intent of the current policy to include members of
> dedicated QA and test lists in the same category as members of the dev
> list. It is to the credit of the OpenOffice community that they went as
> far as checking that their understanding of the policy was correct
> before they did anything.

The snapshots are very carefully fenced as a developer / qa resource in order to assure that
when a release was made it would be of the highest quality.

The PMC waited for complete consensus on the process and that took time - a number of weeks.

Andrea did a very careful job communicating well within the ASF.

> 
> What would not be acceptable would be for OpenOffice to start
> advertising snapshots to their end-user community unless votes had taken
> place and those snapshots had been formally released.

Exactly.

Regards,
Dave

> 
> Mark
> 
> 
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