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From Jim Jagielski <...@jaguNET.com>
Subject Re: Clarification about D&O insurance and bad acts
Date Thu, 29 May 2014 14:48:18 GMT
Who cares how *they* do it? This is *our* policy.
Certainly you understand that, right? And we've gone out
of our way to explain the reason and rationale behind it.
But simply because others don't do it is hardly a reason
for us to change what we do, or how we do it, in and
of itself.

I believe that the moon landing actually happened. I can point
to people who are direct contrasts to that belief. Does that
mean that I should change my mind? The existence of direct
contrasts is moot.

On May 29, 2014, at 10:35 AM, Brian LeRoux <b@brian.io> wrote:

> No need to construct vapid analogies when direct contrasts exist.
> 
> - fsf
> - software freedom conservancy
> - mozilla
> 
> Etc.
> 
> On May 29, 2014 8:15 AM, "Mark Struberg" <struberg@yahoo.de> wrote:
> +1
> 
> Think about it like a QA department of a production line in a company building children
toys.
> 
> Of course all employees take care to not introduce a failure which might harm children.
But even then it _might_ happen.
> 
> Now what would happen if such a failure really appears? They would sue the hell out of
this company...
> 
> By having a QA department which does an independent check if all is fine over and over
again this risk might get reduced. And even if a failure still slips through it will help
the company to not get hit too hard at least.
> 
> LieGrue,
> strub
> 
> --------------------------------------------
> On Thu, 29/5/14, Jim Jagielski <jim@jaguNET.com> wrote:
> 
>  Subject: Re: Clarification about D&O insurance and bad acts
>  To: legal-discuss@apache.org
>  Date: Thursday, 29 May, 2014, 13:49
> 
>  Not sure what you mean by
>  that... One of the aspects
>  of verifying a
>  release is checking that the bits going out
>  are, in fact, the expected and correct bits...
>  which sounds
>  like src verification to me.
>  And is, obviously, appropriate
>  and
>  necessary.
> 
>  On May 28, 2014,
>  at 2:47 PM, Brian LeRoux <b@brian.io> wrote:
> 
>  > Agreed! That said, src
>  verification for releases is not always appropriate or
>  necessary. (Depending on the project, the people and their
>  unique attributes.)
>  >
>  > On May 28, 2014 1:01 PM, "Jim
>  Jagielski" <jim@jagunet.com>
>  wrote:
>  > That is true. But doing normal
>  work-in-progress, and the
>  > oversight
>  thereof, is a different thing than doing a
>  > release.
>  >
>  > One does not negate the other, nor does it
>  remove the
>  > need for the other. Saying
>  "we do X oversight for our day
>  > to
>  day development" does not mean that no oversight is
>  > needed for a release, simply because
>  it's a different
>  > kind of oversight
>  for a different kind of activity.
>  >
>  > On May 27, 2014, at 5:22 PM, Brian LeRoux
>  <b@brian.io> wrote:
>  >
>  > > We could both
>  wax hypothetical about the merit of humans and error
>  proneness. My point is whatever is work-in-progress is a
>  daily responsibility and not something to be left for the
>  last minute check by others. Ever.
>  >
>  >
>  > >
>  > > On
>  Tue, May 27, 2014 at 2:59 PM, Ross Gardler <rgardler@opendirective.com>
>  wrote:
>  > > Brian, you are absolutely
>  correct. However, SVN is not the release and so having
>  reviewed commits is not the same as having reviewed the
>  release. In a well run project where people are reviewing
>  code commits there should be no problem. But people make
>  errors and you would be surprised how often those errors
>  slip through.
>  > >
>  >
>  > Furthermore, since I (as a committer) cannot guarantee
>  that I reviewed every change to every file between release a
>  and release b I cannot, as a PMC member, be certain that the
>  necessary files are present and correct. If I were to vote
>  +1 without having reviewed the release then my vote would be
>  worthless when it comes to demonstrating that our policy has
>  been followed for that release.
>  > >
>  > > Ross
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > On 27 May
>  2014 10:25, Brian LeRoux <b@brian.io> wrote:
>  > > From my perspective this is a daily
>  requirement of a responsible committer. That final check
>  isn't hurting anything but it is not even remotely
>  acceptable for a committer to not be constantly vigilant
>  when landing commits to our source.
>  >
>  >
>  > >
>  > > On
>  Sun, May 25, 2014 at 11:05 AM, Lawrence Rosen <lrosen@rosenlaw.com>
>  wrote:
>  > > Ross Gardler wrote:
>  > >
>  > > > In my
>  mind (and I am not a lawyer so that means almost nothing in
>  these situations) the requirement to have 3 PMC members
>  indicate that, to the best of their knowledge, the release
>  is compliant with the policy is sufficient.
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > Leaving my
>  lawyer hat off for a bit, it seems so to me too. I'm not
>  worried. I wasn't even worried about that when I served
>  on the board. /Larry
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > From: Ross Gardler [mailto:rgardler@opendirective.com]
>  > > Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2014 8:08
>  PM
>  > > To: legal-discuss@apache.org;
>  Larry Rosen
>  > > Subject: Re:
>  Clarification about D&O insurance and bad acts
>  > >
>  > >
>  <snip>
>  > >
>  >
>  >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  >
>  >
>  >
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