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From: "Mattmann, Chris A (3980)" <chris.a.mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov>
To: "legal-discuss@apache.org" <legal-discuss@apache.org>
CC: "private@commons.apache.org" <private@commons.apache.org>
Subject: Re: ICLA US Government
Thread-Topic: ICLA US Government
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Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2014 22:29:55 +0000
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Hi Evan,

Thanks. It's not really a black and white "If Apache is unwilling.."
All some folks have stated is that in the past this issue has come up
several times and each and every time ranging from individual contributor
(e.g., me, or folks from JPL or another NASA center, or e.g., folks from
NSA),=20
to even large  government agency (e.g., NSA, or NASA, or JPL) these
participants
have signed the original ICLA or CCLA without modification.

Given that, you can imagine the precedent that already exists and
is in place. I'm not sure if I can fully alleviate your concern
that you're doing something dishonest by signing the ICLA. Many
other government employees (individuals) as well as a few government
agencies have already decided that as a whole, they are not, and
proceeded. Based on that, I personally do not think you would be
doing anything dishonest by signing the ICLA, no more so than those
individuals that have done so already and those agencies that have
filed CCLAs with the ASF for their named contributors to participate.

Cheers,
Chris


-----Original Message-----
From: Evan Ward <evan.ward@nrl.navy.mil>
Reply-To: "legal-discuss@apache.org" <legal-discuss@apache.org>
Date: Thursday, March 6, 2014 2:10 PM
To: "legal-discuss@apache.org" <legal-discuss@apache.org>
Cc: "private@commons.apache.org" <private@commons.apache.org>
Subject: Re: ICLA US Government

>The helpful lawyers here have informed me that I don't have the
>authority to make the agreements spelled out in the original ICLA. I
>think signing it would be dishonest, both towards Apache and my
>employer. If Apache is unwilling to negotiate or accept a modified ICLA,
>then we are out of options.
>
>To be clear, I would be happy to sign the original ICLA if it excluded
>the work produced from my official government duties.
>
>As long as Apache still accepts work in the public domain I will
>continue to make contributions to [math]. A future thank you to those
>who commit my patches.
>
>Cheers,
>Evan
>
>On Thu 06 Mar 2014 04:34:47 PM EST, Mattmann, Chris A (3980) wrote:
>>
>> +1 that is very much my understanding as well.
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Chris
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Richard Fontana <rfontana@redhat.com>
>> Reply-To: "legal-discuss@apache.org" <legal-discuss@apache.org>
>> Date: Thursday, March 6, 2014 1:32 PM
>> To: "legal-discuss@apache.org" <legal-discuss@apache.org>
>> Cc: "private@commons.apache.org" <private@commons.apache.org>
>> Subject: Re: ICLA US Government
>>
>>>
>>> I'd redraft that section 2. In any case I understand the longstanding
>>>ASF
>>> policy is 'use our standard CLAs, no special cases'.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>
>>>> I got into programming for the tricky logic problems. Look like I
>>>>should
>>>> have been a lawyer. :)
>>>>
>>>> For another open source project that uses the Apache License and
>>>>ICLAs,
>>>> I joined using a modified ICLA (attached). If we s/CS/Apache/ and
>>>> s/Orekit/Commons/ would it be acceptable? I think it clears up the
>>>> worldwide issue and explicitly states "public domain with no license".
>>>>
>>>> Best Regards,
>>>> Evan
>>>>
>>>> On Thu 06 Mar 2014 03:46:31 PM EST, Richard Fontana wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> But the point is that US government works for which copyright is
>>>>> excluded domestically may not have the same exclusion as to copies of
>>>>> those same works published in other countries.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>=20
>>>>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>-
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> True, but public domain is a concept in all modern copyright systems.
>>>>>
>>>>> Moral right treatments differ, but I don't think that the Apache
>>>>> ICLA addresses that anyway.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 5:55 AM, Jim Jagielski <jim@jagunet.com
>>>>> <mailto:jim@jagunet.com>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> We also need to recall that US Copyright Law is not the
>>>>> sole one in existence ;)
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 6, 2014, at 2:36 AM, Ted Dunning <ted.dunning@gmail.com
>>>>> <mailto:ted.dunning@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You may not be the copyright owner, but you can grant a
>>>>>
>>>>> license to public domain works.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As can I or anyone else.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The fact that the the licensee doesn't need the license is
>>>>>
>>>>> irrelevant.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>
>>
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