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From Jim Jagielski <...@jaguNET.com>
Subject Re: Permitted uses of Oracle TCKs by Apache projects
Date Fri, 13 Dec 2013 16:28:26 GMT
Mark, as noted in a previous thread, section 10.3 allows
for the continued use of the TCK as long as we continue
to comply with the agreement. Also, when related to
(c) superseded releases, as long as we are talking
point releases (aka "maintenance releases"), we can
continue to use the TCK to verify against the existing

Can I get a real lawyer to review and confirm?

On Dec 11, 2013, at 3:25 PM, Mark Thomas <markt@apache.org> wrote:

> Background
> ==========
> This question has been moved to legal-discuss@ at the request of the VP,
> Legal.
> Between June 2002 and June 2012 the ASF licensed a number of TCKs from
> Sun/Oracle. The agreement can be found in svn[1]. It includes a number
> of amendments which added additional TCKs to the agreement and/or
> extended the license from its original expiration date. It also includes
> a side-letter that modifies some terms of the agreement.
> Neither Oracle nor the ASF have a complete copy of the agreement. A
> number of amendments have been lost. It is believed that those
> amendments were adding additional TCKs to the license but this is not
> certain.
> When the agreement expired, Oracle and the ASF started to negotiate a
> new agreement. The terms offered by Oracle were not acceptable. Attempts
> to negotiate terms agreeable to the ASF have not been successful and it
> is now judged to be unlikely that Oracle would ever offer terms that
> would be acceptable to the ASF.
> Question
> ========
> I have read the agreement several times and - on the basis that the
> agreement has expired and will not be renewed - it is not clear to me
> whether or not PMCs that previously ran the TCK while the agreement was
> in place are able to continue to run the TCK. Further, if PMCs are still
> able to run the TCK in limited circumstances it is not clear to me what
> those circumstances are.
> My question is therefore this:
> Under what circumstances, if any, may PMCs continue to use TCKs that
> were licensed under the above agreement?
> My own analysis
> ===============
> I think that the license has expired rather than been terminated so
> section 10.3 applies but section 10.4 doesn't.
> Section 10.3 states:
> "10.3 Effect of Expiration. Upon expiration of this Agreement, Licensee
> shall be authorized to: (a) distribute Product(s) successfully
> self-certified against the version of the TCK licensed hereunder at the
> time of expiration, subject to Licensee's continued compliance with this
> Agreement including the payment of any applicable fees, and (b) retain
> one (1) copy of the TCK to support customers having copies of Product(s)
> distributed by Licensee prior to the expiration hereof. All other rights
> of Licensee shall terminate upon such expiration."
> The term "support" as used in the above paragraph is not defined (as far
> as I can tell) in the agreement. Does support include testing new point
> releases? For example, Tomcat 7.0.0 was tested with the Servlet TCK when
> the agreement was in force. A number of further point releases (up to
> 7.0.27) were made while the agreement was in force. Does section 10.3
> give us permission to test all 7.0.x releases after 7.0.27 with the
> Servlet TCK? It seems unlikely that we'd be allowed to continuing using
> the TCK yet, if 10.3 doesn't give us permission to use continue using
> the TCK, what permission does it give us as that is really the only
> permission worth having.
> The agreement is quite long and there may well be other sections that
> apply that I haven't read and/or understood correctly so some advice
> from someone with more legal knowledge would be appreciated.
> Thanks,
> Mark
> [1]
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/private/foundation/Correspondence/JCP/ApacheScholarship
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