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From Benson Margulies <bimargul...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [jira] [Commented] (LEGAL-155) Please help us educate projects about LICENSE and NOTICE
Date Mon, 14 Jan 2013 12:35:08 GMT
Marvin, I (mis)read the parenthetical remark at the top of the draft
document to express confusion or frustration as to the location or
quality of the docs at /legal. If I got it wrong, indeed this thread
is quasi-pointless.

On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 1:38 AM, Marvin Humphrey (JIRA) <jira@apache.org> wrote:
>
>     [ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-155?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13552463#comment-13552463
]
>
> Marvin Humphrey commented on LEGAL-155:
> ---------------------------------------
>
>> The incubator continues to struggle to educate projects in the proper
>> construction and maintenance of LICENSE and NOTICE files. INCUBATOR-125 is
>> an attempt to write some documentation. This document suffers from its
>> authors' inability to even find a single point of reference on the ASF
>> website for theory of these files.
>
> As the person who opened INCUBATOR-125, my opinion is that the reference
> documentation for LICENSE and NOTICE under www.apache.org/legal is for the
> most part Good Enough.
>
> What we lack is methodical cookbook/howto documentation for creating LICENSE
> and NOTICE.  Experience has shown that it is foolishness to point a new PPMC at
> licensing reference documentation and expect them to grok it well enough to
> start with a blank page and end with acceptable LICENSE and NOTICE files.
>
> If ASF Legal wants to curate this howto, they can have it -- but since
> demand always outstrips supply for the legal committee's services, I don't
> think we should insist on their participation.
>
> The only reference documentation I feel is missing from ASF legal is a
> description of what requirements each approved third-party license imposes on
> NOTICE.  As it stands now, individual PMCs must make those calls, and they
> generally get them wrong -- see LEGAL-59.  Having those answers available
> would have helped me to write the howto.
>
> However, the NOTICE requirements for three-clause BSD, MIT/X11 and ALv2 are
> all reasonably well understood at this point, which covers ~90% of
> dependencies and allows us to move forward.  We can open individual LEGAL
> issues as the need arises to ask specific targeted questions about more
> esoteric licenses -- e.g. whether the Unicode Data license requires any
> additions to NOTICE.
>
>> In this area, I have a particular curiosity and concern about convenience
>> binaries.
>
> The issue of binary distributions is complex, unresolved and evolving.  We are
> never going to get the howto done if we insist on arguing binaries to a
> conclusion first.
>
> If we strike every word in the howto relating to binaries can we please drop
> the subject and move on?
>
>> Please help us educate projects about LICENSE and NOTICE
>> --------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>                 Key: LEGAL-155
>>                 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-155
>>             Project: Legal Discuss
>>          Issue Type: Task
>>            Reporter: Benson Margulies
>>
>> Dear Legal,
>> The incubator continues to struggle to educate projects in the proper construction
and maintenance of LICENSE and NOTICE files. INCUBATOR-125 is an attempt to write some documentation.
This document suffers from its authors' inability to even find a single point of reference
on the ASF website for theory of these files.
>> Since podlings are unusual only in their need to set up initial versions, it seems
to me that most of this documentation should be produced and maintained at the foundation
level, and the incubator should be pointing to it, instead of maintain detailed alternatives
with risk of divergence.
>> If there is existing documentation, please comment and point me to it. If there is
not, can we collaborate to write it?
>> In this area, I have a particular curiosity and concern about convenience binaries.
>> A typical Apache project has very limited needs for complexity in these files for
its *releases*. Only sources with external provenance (e.g., results of an SGA) or bundled
dependencies trigger it. Far more dependencies get bundled in convenience binaries. But convenience
binaries are, merely, conveniences, not legally, releases from the foundation. I've never
seen any discussion of this; does the foundation's liability umbrella even extend over them?
I doubt it, for all the usual reasons given in emphasizing that the real release is the source
release. So I wonder about what policies or guidelines should exist for their legal boilerplate.
>
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