Return-Path: X-Original-To: apmail-legal-discuss-archive@www.apache.org Delivered-To: apmail-legal-discuss-archive@www.apache.org Received: from mail.apache.org (hermes.apache.org [140.211.11.3]) by minotaur.apache.org (Postfix) with SMTP id F3C20D7C4 for ; Tue, 18 Sep 2012 22:06:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 74013 invoked by uid 500); 18 Sep 2012 22:06:53 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-legal-discuss-archive@apache.org Received: (qmail 73801 invoked by uid 500); 18 Sep 2012 22:06:53 -0000 Mailing-List: contact legal-discuss-help@apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: Reply-To: legal-discuss@apache.org List-Id: Delivered-To: mailing list legal-discuss@apache.org Received: (qmail 73794 invoked by uid 99); 18 Sep 2012 22:06:53 -0000 Received: from athena.apache.org (HELO athena.apache.org) (140.211.11.136) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Tue, 18 Sep 2012 22:06:53 +0000 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=3.1 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,SPF_PASS,URG_BIZ X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (athena.apache.org: domain of lrosen@rosenlaw.com designates 69.89.22.20 as permitted sender) Received: from [69.89.22.20] (HELO oproxy8-pub.bluehost.com) (69.89.22.20) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with SMTP; Tue, 18 Sep 2012 22:06:47 +0000 Received: (qmail 1242 invoked by uid 0); 18 Sep 2012 22:06:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box597.bluehost.com) (66.147.242.197) by oproxy8.bluehost.com with SMTP; 18 Sep 2012 22:06:26 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rosenlaw.com; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Cc:To:From:Reply-To; bh=GlBJFLkJqmZ6f+rCIsgJa2156+2WaclB416VwrKakko=; b=N2aG7iI/qUUnlg5eCHVodBkYkqCaIWm+dpqrmY0JYYm4jNaxOsSHakcbXf2GWDhun/uwjek1Ie/7AfIBAM8jtmDXFX+Ay/5QGWTmvnekwuU52FgRQLXdRHZ9+Q6xWrIM; Received: from [70.36.233.41] (port=20053 helo=Lawrencei) by box597.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1TE5w2-0003eA-9S for legal-discuss@apache.org; Tue, 18 Sep 2012 16:06:26 -0600 Reply-To: From: "Lawrence Rosen" To: Cc: References: <2000DD3003687A4395D8E6012286781ED90CD6D8@XCH-MW-04V.mw.nos.boeing.com> <1347915748.85483.YahooMailNeo@web28905.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <1347915939.1151.YahooMailNeo@web28906.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <1347978140.8830.140661129477709.3FE6EB06@webmail.messagingengine.com> In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: KC-46 ATS Air Force Program Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 15:06:27 -0700 Organization: Rosenlaw & Einschlag Message-ID: <028701cd95e9$da422920$8ec67b60$@rosenlaw.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0288_01CD95AF.2DEA7D10" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQKZ5Ru3/pX2saYmjEGRvhnwT8DzHgMKJaBmAdJtIfcCh1avVwHc+Lv7la4Ac8A= Content-Language: en-us X-Identified-User: {1397:box597.bluehost.com:rosenla1:rosenlaw.com} {sentby:smtp auth 70.36.233.41 authed with lrosen@rosenlaw.com} X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org ------=_NextPart_000_0288_01CD95AF.2DEA7D10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Folks, =20 Several US government purchasing agents have previously held a = misconception about the indemnity provisions in the Apache license. That = problem was resolved many months ago (perhaps on license-discuss@ but I = don=E2=80=99t recall exactly??) through discussions with relevant = attorneys. The Apache License *is not*a problem. (Can someone here scan = the archives for that?) =20 I note that it is too late to respond to Ms. Gaines by COB 9/17. If = anyone from Apache responds, though, please don=E2=80=99t mislead her = into thinking the Apache License indemnification provision is a concern = to the US government. It is now just an urban myth. =20 /Larry =20 Lawrence Rosen Rosenlaw & Einschlag, a technology law firm ( = www.rosenlaw.com) 3001 King Ranch Rd., Ukiah, CA 95482 Office: 707-485-1242 =20 From: Ted Dunning [mailto:ted.dunning@gmail.com]=20 Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 7:28 AM To: legal-discuss@apache.org Subject: Re: KC-46 ATS Air Force Program =20 To the content of the question, it appears that the problem is that the = ASL declaims liability which is apparently unacceptable. =20 Boeing probably has to remove subversion from the proposal in that case, = because there is no way to change the license, especially in the crazy = time frame of COB yesterday. On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 7:22 AM, Upayavira wrote: Mark, If possible, please keep your responses more civil - they will be taken as representative of the ASF by some. Whilst I can understand your umbrage, if she has been given a list of 'companies' to contact, she is just doing her job, and there's no reason to assume that she should know anything about who the ASF is or how its mission differs from the normal motivation of making lots of money. If someone comes to us with an unreasonable request, I'd hope we can simply explain to them why it is unreasonable, and move on. Thanks, Upayavira On Mon, Sep 17, 2012, at 10:05 PM, Mark Struberg wrote: > sorry > > s/non profit company/non profit organisation/ > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Mark Struberg > > To: "legal-discuss@apache.org" > > Cc: > > Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 11:02 PM > > Subject: Re: KC-46 ATS Air Force Program > > > > Just a minor comment from the kitchen sink... > > > > > > Is this a hoax or just a joke? > > > > If neither, then I think you are the wrong person to cast this = request. > > > > The Apache Software Foundation and it's License, the Apache License, = Version > > 2.0 (ALv2) [1] is all about FREE and OPEN Source. We are a non = profit company > > and do NOT sell anything. As such there is just no business for a > > 'purchasing agent'. > > > > Oh, the timeframe. Well, indeed this looks even more like a joke. At = least it > > doesn't look like serious business... > > > > If I ask Boeing to change it's fundamental company guidelines in = just under > > 12 hours, would you think that is possible somehow? No? Well, what = shall I say? > > > > > > Thus what do you really like from us? Exactly: which paragraph = should not be > > fine with which law?Please come to the point and don't waste our = time with > > pre produced standard letters. > > > > > > LieGrue, > > strub > > > > > > PS: The ALv2 is good enough for 1000++ NATO, NASA and other = government projects > > in the US and worldwide. Including the now famous Mars rover. Why = shouldn't > > it be good enough for Boeing as well? > > > > PPS: not sure if you are aware that this is a public mailing list = which gets > > mirrored by hundreds of mail archive mirrors worldwide ... > > > > PPPS: don't take this email personal. I just reflected the harshness = of your > > incoming email/docs. > > > > > > [1] http://apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0 > > > >> ________________________________ > >> From: "Gaines, Jeanette R" > >> To: "legal-discuss@apache.org" > >> Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 9:14 PM > >> Subject: KC-46 ATS Air Force Program > >> > >> > >> From:Gaines, Jeanette R > >> Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 1:29 PM > >> To: 'legal-discuss-subscribe@apache.org' > >> Cc: Svejkosky-Jr, Joseph L; Kuhlmann, Louise M > >> Subject: KC-46 ATS Air Force Program > >> =20 > >> Apache Software Foundation Legal Representatives: > >> Please see the attached urgent request. Let me know if you have any > > questions. > >> Please provide a fully compliant response by COB today, Monday, = September > > 17, 2012. > >> Thank you, > >> =20 > >> =20 > >> Jeanette (Jan) R. Gaines > >> Purchasing Agent > >> jeanette.r.gaines@boeing.com > >> 314.777.0738 > >> > >> = --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org > >> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org > >> > >> > > > > = --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0288_01CD95AF.2DEA7D10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Folks,

 

Several US government purchasing agents have previously held a = misconception about the indemnity provisions in the Apache license. That = problem was resolved many months ago (perhaps on license-discuss@ but I = don=E2=80=99t recall exactly??) through discussions with relevant = attorneys. The Apache License *is not*a problem. (Can someone = here scan the archives for that?)

 

I note that it is too late to respond to Ms. Gaines by COB 9/17. If = anyone from Apache responds, though, please don=E2=80=99t mislead her = into thinking the Apache License indemnification provision is a concern = to the US government. It is now just an urban = myth.

 

/Larry

 

Lawrence Rosen

Rosenlaw & Einschlag, a technology law firm (www.rosenlaw.com)

3001 King Ranch Rd., Ukiah, CA 95482

Office: 707-485-1242

 

From:= = Ted Dunning [mailto:ted.dunning@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, = September 18, 2012 7:28 AM
To: = legal-discuss@apache.org
Subject: Re: KC-46 ATS Air Force = Program

 

To the = content of the question, it appears that the problem is that the ASL = declaims liability which is apparently = unacceptable.

 

Boeing probably has to remove subversion = from the proposal in that case, because there is no way to change the = license, especially in the crazy time frame of COB = yesterday.

On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 = at 7:22 AM, Upayavira <uv@odoko.co.uk> wrote:

Mark,

If possible, please keep your responses = more civil - they will be taken
as representative of the ASF by some. = Whilst I can understand your
umbrage, if she has been given a list of = 'companies' to contact, she is
just doing her job, and there's no = reason to assume that she should know
anything about who the ASF is = or how its mission differs from the normal
motivation of making lots = of money.

If someone comes to us with an unreasonable request, = I'd hope we can
simply explain to them why it is unreasonable, and = move on.

Thanks,

Upayavira


On Mon, Sep 17, = 2012, at 10:05 PM, Mark Struberg wrote:
> sorry
>
> = s/non profit company/non profit = organisation/
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message = -----
> > From: Mark Struberg <struberg@yahoo.de>
> > = To: "legal-discuss@apache.org&quo= t; <legal-discuss@apache.org>=
> > Cc:
> > Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 11:02 = PM
> > Subject: Re: KC-46 ATS Air Force Program
> = >
> > Just a minor comment from the kitchen sink...
> = >
> >
> > Is this a hoax or just a joke?
> = >
> > If neither, then I think you are the wrong person to = cast this request.
> >
> > The Apache Software = Foundation and it's License, the Apache License, Version
> > = 2.0 (ALv2) [1] is all about FREE and OPEN Source. We are a non profit = company
> > and do NOT sell anything. As such there is just no = business for a
> > 'purchasing agent'.
> >
> = > Oh, the timeframe. Well, indeed this looks even more like a joke. = At least it
> > doesn't look like serious business...
> = >
> > If I ask Boeing to change it's fundamental company = guidelines in just under
> > 12 hours, would you think that is = possible somehow? No? Well, what shall I say?
> >
> = >
> > Thus what do you really like from us? Exactly: which = paragraph should not be
> > fine with which law?Please come to = the point and don't waste our time with
> > pre produced = standard letters.
> >
> >
> > = LieGrue,
> > strub
> >
> >
> > PS: = The ALv2 is good enough for 1000++ NATO, NASA and other government = projects
> > in the US and worldwide. Including the now famous = Mars rover. Why shouldn't
> > it be good enough for Boeing as = well?
> >
> > PPS: not sure if you are aware that this = is a public mailing list which gets
> > mirrored by hundreds of = mail archive mirrors worldwide ...
> >
> > PPPS: don't = take this email personal. I just reflected the harshness of your
> = > incoming email/docs.
> >
> >
> > [1] http://apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0
> = >
> >> ________________________________
> >> =  From: "Gaines, Jeanette R" <jeanette.r.gaines@boeing.com= >
> >> To: "legal-discuss@apache.org&quo= t; <legal-discuss@apache.org>=
> >> Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 9:14 PM
> = >> Subject: KC-46 ATS Air Force Program
> >>
> = >>
> >> From:Gaines, Jeanette R
> >> Sent: = Monday, September 17, 2012 1:29 PM
> >> To: 'legal-discuss-subscrib= e@apache.org'
> >> Cc: Svejkosky-Jr, Joseph L; Kuhlmann, = Louise M
> >> Subject: KC-46 ATS Air Force Program
> = >>  
> >> Apache Software Foundation Legal = Representatives:
> >> Please see the attached urgent = request. Let me know if you have any
> > questions.
> = >> Please provide a fully compliant response by COB today, Monday, = September
> > 17, 2012.
> >> Thank you,
> = >>  
> >>  
> >> Jeanette (Jan) = R. Gaines
> >> Purchasing Agent
> >> jeanette.r.gaines@boeing.com=
> >> 314.777.0738
> >>
> = >> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------
= > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubs= cribe@apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: = legal-discuss-help@apache.o= rg
> >>
> >>
> >
> > = ---------------------------------------------------------------------
= > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubs= cribe@apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.o= rg
> >
>
> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------
= > To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubs= cribe@apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.o= rg
>

---------------------------------------------------= ------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubs= cribe@apache.org
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