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From "Dennis E. Hamilton" <dennis.hamil...@acm.org>
Subject RE: KC-46 ATS Air Force Program
Date Tue, 18 Sep 2012 18:24:36 GMT
I examined all of the materials, since I have a safe way to read all of those attachments.

I agree, there is no reason to object to this contact, even if it was misdirected and essential
details are missing.

Some progressive thumbnails:


 1. There is no carrot.
 2. The stick is harmless.  Ignore it.


Boeing is the supplier of the KC-46A which was selected in 2011.  18 Initial operational KC-45
tankers are to be delivered by 2017: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_KC-46>.  The
KC-46 Aircrew Training System (ATS) is apparently a deliverable as part of or a companion
to that procurement.

For reasons that are not clear, the Apache Software Foundation is listed as a Supplier and
the technical data it is supplying is listed as "Subversion."  The "technical data" is described
as Commercial Software developed at private expense and the asserted rights category is "License
customarily provided to public."  Note that there is no identification of how Apache Subversion
comes to be identified on the list (it is item #57) and what the relevance is to the KC-46
ATS Air Force Program.

Accepting the contact message on good faith, Jeanette Gaines is a Purchasing Agent for Boeing
Company in St. Louis, Missouri (i.e., the location of the Boeing defense systems operation
that includes the former McDonnell Douglas facilities).  

Boeing is vetting the suppliers listed for this project to ensure compliance with US Federal
Government and agency procurement requirements.  This is also intended to protect Boeing from
liability of various kinds.  That's what purchasing agents do in this kind of activity.


Since ASF is in not a supplier to Boeing nor is it a vendor, one avenue would be to recommend
that a supplier that is prepared to provide an SVN distribution under appropriate commercial
terms be engaged.  A list of possible suppliers might be offered. 

If, indeed, it is the SVN source code (that is, what the Apache Subversion project releases)
being used, it is of course up to Boeing legal, not ASF legal, to determine how to comply
with the license and provide whatever assurances to the government that are required, since
ASF is not party to any such adoption and there is no obligation on the part of ASF.  Boeing
has to manage that.  

[PERSONAL ASIDE: The level of bureaucracy is at a global maximum when one considers very-big
government and a very-big company being a very-big contractor.  Boeing is laying off some
risk.  Accordingly, it can be very expensive to be a sub-contractor or supplier into one of
these arrangements.  But Boeing is subject to intense auditing and that's how it goes.]

 - Dennis

-----Original Message-----
From: Ted Dunning [mailto:ted.dunning@gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 07:28
To: legal-discuss@apache.org
Subject: Re: KC-46 ATS Air Force Program

To the content of the question, it appears that the problem is that the ASL declaims liability
which is apparently unacceptable.

Boeing probably has to remove subversion from the proposal in that case, because there is
no way to change the license, especially in the crazy time frame of COB yesterday.

[ ... ]

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