www-legal-discuss mailing list archives

Site index · List index
Message view « Date » · « Thread »
Top « Date » · « Thread »
From Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net>
Subject Re: [all] NSWC and Apache license
Date Fri, 10 Aug 2012 22:21:10 GMT
Hi Dennis,

On Aug 10, 2012, at 2:36 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:

> Dave,
> 
> ALv2 is more restricted than public domain.  ALv2 also makes patent assertions that have
not been attested to by the original creators of the code and that makes it misleading (the
same as if we're talking about Modified BSD or Creative Commons Attribution as third-party
sources).
> 
> For that reason, I recommend establishing the provenance, with a reference if possible,
and limiting the scope of application of the ALv2 to the original contribution of modifications/translations.
 It provides enough for someone to satisfy themselves about the previous work and the extent
of the derivative contribution.

In this case provenance is likely to be much too high a bar as I very much doubt that it is
possible to establish given that this library was collected from 1973-1993 within the Pentagon
from the Surface Warfare Unit. If you know the history of computing and how it was coupled
to ballistic calculation and code breaking, it is very likely that some of these algorithms
predate electronic computers and are from the time when computer was a job title - often a
woman's - like my mother's was.

I think that quoting the cover of the manual should be enough to satisfy most reasonable people.

For those who agree, would you recommend that these routines if used and translated have HEADERS
that state "public domain as the collection of <Author> of the <US Navy Surface Warfare
proper name> collected 1973-1993"?

If these routines were included should a project alter their NOTICE and LICENSE? And, if so,
how?

For the NOTICE file, the practice as I understand it is to only include "required notices".
 I don't think this is required although I'm sure some projects would put a "Portions of the
software are public domain ...." to be on the safe side.

It is not a LICENSE, so nothing is needed in the LICENSE file.

What does legal-discuss think? What is the existing law around attribution and derivative
use of public domain software? How can a patent even apply to something that is public domain?

Regards,
Dave

> 
> - Dennis
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Fisher [mailto:dave2wave@comcast.net] 
> Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 14:15
> To: legal-discuss@apache.org
> Subject: Re: [all] NSWC and Apache license
> 
> Dennis,
> 
> Since this work is apparently public domain with no license without the word "copyright"
in the source code what harm to users would the AL2 have if applied?
> 
> Regards,
> Dave
> 
> On Aug 10, 2012, at 1:55 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
> 
>> Just a quick note to ensure that people understand that copyright cannot be claimed
on public domain works.  So, for a derivative, it might be valuable to regard the public-domain
original as a third-party work with a type A license.  Then it is clear that any application
of the Apache License applies to the changes and the overall changed document, not the remnants
of the original work.  
>> 
>> Translations are an odd case.  Technically, making translations is also an exclusive
right of copyright holders,  but the translation of code between programming languages seems
murky territory to me.  If one were to reverse engineer the Fortran procedures and then re-implement
the abstracted functions in the styles and idioms of another programming language, this might
be use of the idea (function) more than of the expression (that which is subject to copyright).
>> 
>> I don't know what the Fortran translation requires.  For myself, I would always acknowledge
the provenance of the ideas if not the expression, and say where the original is obtained
as well.  That's perhaps more of a scholarly community requirement than what ASF might require
in the case at hand.
>> 
>> - Dennis 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Sébastien Brisard [mailto:sebastien.brisard@m4x.org] 
>> Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 22:14
>> To: legal-discuss@apache.org
>> Subject: Re: [all] NSWC and Apache license
>> 
>> [ ... ]
>> 
>> If I understand correctly, there is no copyright on the material
>> distributed by the US government, unless otherwise stated
>> 
>> "THEREFORE, you must carefully review and respect the copyright
>> notices and other legends on all documents that you download from
>> DTIC’s Web site and obtain permission from the copyright holder if you
>> wish to reproduce and distribute the copyrighted material separately
>> in another context."
>> 
>> Since there is no copyright notice on the FORTRAN file, I will start
>> porting the parts that interest me in CM3. Let's see if their algos
>> are more accurate...
>> If anyone thinks that this is wrong,  please let me know.
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> Sébastien
>> 
>> [1] http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/pdf/announcements/CopyrightGuidance.pdf
>> 
>> 
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
>> 
>> 
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
>> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
> 


---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org


Mime
View raw message