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From Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net>
Subject Re: [RE-VOTE #3] adoption of mod_combine subproject
Date Wed, 04 Apr 2012 02:33:22 GMT
On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 10:14 PM, William A. Rowe Jr.
<wrowe@rowe-clan.net> wrote:
> On 4/3/2012 8:53 PM, Sam Ruby wrote:
>> On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 9:37 PM, William A. Rowe Jr. <wrowe@rowe-clan.net> wrote:
>>> Where is the process documented?
>>
>> http://www.apache.org/licenses/icla.txt
>>
>>> Excellent.  I think we agree on critera.  Our only difference of opinion is
that,
>>> on my reading of the ICLA, it's impossible for a committer to do what you are
>>> asking the committer to confirm they have not done.
>>
>> You are seriously asserting that it is IMPOSSIBLE (emphasis added) for
>> a committer to commit something that is not their original creation,
>> or to not include complete details of any third-party license or other
>> restriction, or to not have received permission to make Contributions
>> on behalf of that employer or (need I go on)?
>
> ... without violating the terms of their ICLA contract with the ASF.
>
> Yes, that's what I'm saying.

*sigh*

... and the organizational unit that is responsible for the oversight
of each and every commit to a given project in order to detect honest
mistakes or misunderstandings or whatever is... drumroll ... the PMC!

Mistakes happen.  Misunderstandings happen.  That's why we have
organizational units set up to deal with such.

>> So, to recap: the documentation is posted on our website (link
>> helpfully provided above), and each and every one of those things
>> listed is clearly possible.  From time to time, they even happen.  It
>> is the PMC's job to monitor for such occurrences and to apply
>> remediation when necessary.
>
> Reminders to all committers at various points of the scope of their
> contract with and responsibilities towards the ASF with respect to their
> commit privileges seems like a good idea to me, too.  Can we find a way
> to do that without treating every commit as suspect?

I encourage you to not use such drama filled terms as 'suspect'.  We
are dealing with humans.  Humans make mistakes.  Not because they are
evil, but because they are human.

The ASF goes through great pains to ensure that (for example) every
commit results in an email to a mailing list that PMC is expected to
monitor.  When mistakes happen (note I said when, not if), it is a
failing not only of the committer but of the PMC.  Every time somebody
runs a RAT report and identifies a problem, that is a problem that was
missed previously.  Somebody committed that change.  Every PMC member
wasn't doing their job monitoring commits.

Isolated mistakes that are promptly addressed are not a problem.  A
pattern of mistakes will prompt action, first from the Legal Affairs
committee, and ultimately by the board.

- Sam Ruby

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