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From "Dennis E. Hamilton (Commented) (JIRA)" <j...@apache.org>
Subject [jira] [Commented] (LEGAL-104) Provide Terms of Use for openoffice.org Internet Domain Properties
Date Sun, 30 Oct 2011 15:30:32 GMT

    [ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-104?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13139645#comment-13139645
] 

Dennis E. Hamilton commented on LEGAL-104:
------------------------------------------

@Robert

Thank you for your perspective.

I have a couple of concerns.

 1. I am not certain what the next action and next actors are, especially with regard to having
usable terms now for a migration which has already begun and where some of the web content
is now in ASF custody.  This content is now being presented with Oracle branding and the existing
terms of use.  (We have no choice on the migration timing.  The current hostings are slowly
but surely vanishing.  Our goal is to avoid disrupting availability of the properties from
the perspective of the community of users.)

 2. This is a particular case of bringing an established family of integrated web properties
under ASF custody in conjunction with a podling and its contributed code (but it is not the
contribution, per se).  In particular, there is extensive content which are not subject to
any grant and whose provenance is quite complex (but the terms of contribution are not). 
These properties are also not "released" though their may be release-related content (e.g.,
announcements, where to download, how to find older, pre-ASF versions, other collateral information
in multiple languages).  There is also generic content.  And there are EXISTING Terms of Use
now affixed to the pages served by the web sites.

That is why I wanted a limited scope for what would be potentially a provisional set of terms
that would safeguard the migration and then allow for adjustments, clearances, and perhaps
injection of some modicum of (a provisional) ASF-wide approach.  There is a local and immediate
problem and I wanted to limit the scope, avoiding creating a precedent with widespread implications.
 I suspect the major consideration is that there be no obvious conflict with what the ASF
might prefer in a situation where the web property were created from scratch as a collateral
of an Apache project.  

I also note that heretofore, there seem to be no terms of use in place on ASF web properties.
 I took that as evidence that the ASF is somewhat casual about the matter and we would not
have to boil the ocean in order to deal with an urgent case before us.  The Oracle ToU are
there.  Something must be done about them.  Removing them altogether, with no replacement,
does not seem ideal, especially because most of the material was contributed under the Oracle
terms and, even moreso, whatever the previous Sun terms were.

I don't quite know how to parse "semantics" in this setting.  Do you have a roadmap of some
sort in mind?  I have no concern about what legal internal needs to do, since that will be
opaque and completely beyond my expertise and qualifications.  I do have a concern with what
the expected result of such a task will be and when we would be able to use it (i.e., apply
the terms to the material that is in hand and under an existing ToU).

What do you need from the Apache OO.o Podling, and what is it we should be expecting from
legal@ ?
                
> Provide Terms of Use for openoffice.org Internet Domain Properties
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>                 Key: LEGAL-104
>                 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-104
>             Project: Legal Discuss
>          Issue Type: Task
>            Reporter: Dennis E. Hamilton
>
> In August, Drew Jensen submitted information for replacing Terms of Use from OpenOffice.org:
> [1] http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/www-legal-discuss/201108.mbox/%3c1313314247.29323.33.camel@sybil-gnome%3e
> [2] http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/www-legal-discuss/201108.mbox/%3c1314288884.12962.15.camel@sybil%3e
> [3] http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/www-legal-discuss/201108.mbox/%3c1314292969.12962.27.camel@sybil%3e
> This is a renewal of that discussion, offering a specific markup of the existing ToU
as a suggested replacement when the same web pages are rehosted on Apache infrastructure.
> PROPOSAL
> It is proposed that a generic (but OpenOffice.org-specific) Terms of Use be employed
for all of the current OpenOffice.org web resources that are migrated to Apache hosting and
served via the openoffice.org Internet domain and subdomains.  These Terms are not applicable
to other web properties that are on apache.org domains, including other web pages for the
Apache OpenOffice.org podling development activities separate from the user-focused openoffice.org
web properties.  These Terms are proposed to be used for incubation of the rehosted OpenOffice.org
as part of the Apache OpenOffice.org Podling incubation.
> The proposal for review and further markup is available as a Bugzilla attachment on issue
#118518, <https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=118518>.  (The issue is there
because attachments are not supported here.)
> The approach is as follows:
>  1. The current Terms of Use, established by Oracle, are used as the basis for the re-hosting
Terms of Use.
>  2. The current Terms of Use text is modified, using revision marking, to change the
Host to ASF and to simplify the Terms in important respects:
>   2.1 The outgoing Terms for access are essentially the same.
>  2.2 The incoming Terms are simpler in that the only means for contribution of code is
via ALv2 (the current default with Oracle) and all other contributions are via a general permissive
declaration (the current default with Oracle).  Provision for alternative licenses on submissions
to some projects is removed and the project concept is also removed.  (This has nothing to
do with projects in the Apache sense.)
>  3. The effect is that the terms under which any previous submissions have been made
are honored (and will need to be dealt with via IP clearance, as appropriate) but new submissions
are limited to ALv2 for code and generic permissive for anything else.
>  4. Another effect is that the same Terms can be used on all openoffice.org web pages
that are rehosted on Apache infrastructure under the original openoffice.org domain.
> REQUESTED ACTION
>  5. Section 3d provides a URL as a place for notification of any copyright infringement
complaints (and, I presume, DMCA notices).  An ASF location for such communications or an
e-mail address needs to be supplied.  Alternatively, section 3d needs to be removed.
>  6. Renumbered section 4d provides a URL for a Privacy Policy statement.  An ASF location
for a Privacy Policy should be inserted or else the section deleted.
>  7. There are a number of notes and annotations in the text and review of those notes
and the modifications is requested.  
>  8. Approval of an adjusted text is requested.  It is moderately urgent so that staging
of current openoffice.org web properties to Apache custody can be carried out.

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