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From Ted Dunning <ted.dunn...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [jira] [Created] (LEGAL-90) What are the licensing implications for statistical information drawn from non-ASL2-licensed data, e.g. word frequency lists from Wikipedia dumps?
Date Thu, 19 May 2011 06:08:03 GMT
Yeah... there *was* a copyright case involving this guy (and two others)
regarding the scrolls, but I kind of got the situations gemischt.  The
copyright case involved the publication of photos and an article, not the
reverse engineered text.

On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 8:04 PM, Lawrence Rosen <lrosen@rosenlaw.com> wrote:

> Ted Dunning wrote:
>
> I think that somebody published a concordance and got in Dutch with the
> guys controlling access to the scrolls.  Not sure if it was actually a
> copyright issue (the scrolls themselves are just a bit out of copyright) or
> a contract issue or something else.
>
>
>
> You aroused my curiosity. Below is what Wikipedia tells us. This confirms
> again the ultimate futility of trying to restrict access to important
> copyrighted (or in this case long-since-not-copyrighted!) works. Thanks be
> to reverse engineering and the diligence of scholars.
>
>
>
> You suggest an even more complicated question: If, as I argued before, a
> concordance isn't a derivative work, then what do you call it when "an
> approximate reconstruction of the original text" is recreated from the
> concordance? Fortunately for me, I refuse to answer hypothetical legal
> questions on this list. :-)
>
>
>
> /Larry
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Inverting a concordance
>
> A famous use of a concordance involved the reconstruction of the text of
> some of the Dead Sea Scrolls<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Sea_Scrolls>
>  from a concordance.
>
> Access to some of the scrolls was governed by a "secrecy rule" that allowed
> only the original International Team or their designates to view the
> original materials. After the death of Roland de Vaux<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_de_Vaux>
>  in 1971, his successors repeatedly refused to even allow the publication
> of photographs to other scholars. This restriction was circumvented by Martin
> Abegg<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Martin_Abegg&action=edit&redlink=1>
>  in 1991, who used a computer to "invert" a concordance of the missing
> documents made in the 1950s which had come into the hands of scholars
> outside of the International Team, to obtain an approximate reconstruction
> of the original text of 17 of the documents.[2]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concordance_(publishing)#cite_note-1>
> [3] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concordance_(publishing)#cite_note-2> This
> was soon followed by the release of the original text of the scrolls.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concordance_(publishing)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Ted Dunning [mailto:ted.dunning@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 18, 2011 4:39 PM
> *To:* legal-discuss@apache.org
> *Subject:* Re: [jira] [Created] (LEGAL-90) What are the licensing
> implications for statistical information drawn from non-ASL2-licensed data,
> e.g. word frequency lists from Wikipedia dumps?
>
>
>
> Wasn't there some case law on this with respect to published editions of
> the Dead Sea scrolls?
>
>
>
> I think that somebody published a concordance and got in Dutch with the
> guys controlling access to the scrolls.  Not sure
>
> if it was actually a copyright issue (the scrolls themselves are just a bit
> out of copyright) or a contract issue or something else.
>
> On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 4:24 PM, Lawrence Rosen <lrosen@rosenlaw.com>
> wrote:
>
> You might also argue that a statistical transformation of a work doesn't
> create a copyrightable work, hence it is not even a derivative work. I'm not
> sure what it is.... Perhaps just a set of numbers that means something only
> to a statistician? Is the reduced data an "expressive work"?
>
>
>

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