Return-Path: Delivered-To: apmail-legal-discuss-archive@www.apache.org Received: (qmail 82677 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2011 20:03:42 -0000 Received: from hermes.apache.org (HELO mail.apache.org) (140.211.11.3) by minotaur.apache.org with SMTP; 8 Mar 2011 20:03:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 94936 invoked by uid 500); 8 Mar 2011 20:03:42 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-legal-discuss-archive@apache.org Received: (qmail 94541 invoked by uid 500); 8 Mar 2011 20:03:41 -0000 Mailing-List: contact legal-discuss-help@apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: Reply-To: legal-discuss@apache.org List-Id: Delivered-To: mailing list legal-discuss@apache.org Received: (qmail 94534 invoked by uid 99); 8 Mar 2011 20:03:41 -0000 Received: from athena.apache.org (HELO athena.apache.org) (140.211.11.136) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Tue, 08 Mar 2011 20:03:41 +0000 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.5 required=5.0 tests=FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,SPF_PASS,T_TO_NO_BRKTS_FREEMAIL X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (athena.apache.org: domain of akarasulu@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.178 as permitted sender) Received: from [74.125.82.178] (HELO mail-wy0-f178.google.com) (74.125.82.178) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Tue, 08 Mar 2011 20:03:37 +0000 Received: by wyj26 with SMTP id 26so397346wyj.23 for ; Tue, 08 Mar 2011 12:03:16 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=wzl00ey8yh+aS6jcK0L5p66CPZMNqIw6kD75U+DTioc=; b=SroLGXqQKWVa2xS3ZZB+DQKoWqqydn06hXs/R2w8gk32amJ0E+PtJlpOQ7wzircwmP q2uKqK8l9EljiYIt0owDPt0l3MgQKSsB2s8SROGrsxg5lTCURDiDy+80qlPPovBgYcUC D5Pcq7vfH7w1nLadlBCyjV0PuNgBJsocV2gd8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; b=JWr8jz5M3qaQGWdiys5FBT21Pvkogd58VJxEC5Ryyerytm5xgzXTLEhQjd64TTknfl jQ/jMiWUxiPLx6RX+im5d/0KKmQSk4EqwdkHUsTvrFGby3n/jI8Cl5U2SGzQTsh+es8w 0VYugysarPnWT9NrRgd1BQZ9uiweBAG0ajqDg= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.192.82 with SMTP id h60mr5398346wen.54.1299614502362; Tue, 08 Mar 2011 12:01:42 -0800 (PST) Sender: akarasulu@gmail.com Received: by 10.216.51.15 with HTTP; Tue, 8 Mar 2011 12:01:42 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <3AC4E1FA-74FF-4BEC-AFD1-84DBC7DECA39@yahoo-inc.com> References: <3BEA62CE-B2D6-4474-B76E-FE176A9D2BFE@yahoo-inc.com> <0151DF47-FAB7-4E51-B030-5D91FAB399E6@yahoo-inc.com> <3AC4E1FA-74FF-4BEC-AFD1-84DBC7DECA39@yahoo-inc.com> Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 22:01:42 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: eP6sV9IZO9A8qEF76cJSDnrYedU Message-ID: Subject: Re: [VOTE] Accept Howl as an Incubator Project From: Alex Karasulu To: general@incubator.apache.org Cc: Legal Discuss Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e64c1664c22014049dfe146b --0016e64c1664c22014049dfe146b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi Alan, On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 8:26 PM, Alan Gates wrote: > We are taking it seriously. We (Howl mentors and committers) discussed > this and the consensus seemed to be we wanted to stay with the name if > possible. The feedback on this list was mixed, with many for changing it > and some not worried about it. So we wanted to stick with it for now and > see how it went. > > I'm not here to create a problem for y'all. Keep in mind I +1'd the proposal even though I had some reservations about all of you being Yahoo'ers. You can work on that in the incubator - no problem to diversify while incubating. But I've been around for a while and have seen a few things. Let me be more specific. We had Felix which entered the incubator as Oscar about 5 years ago. We had a little bit of an issue there because of OW's Oscar. It was a little bit different here but still close enough to mention. It created some noise that eventually led to the Felix name change a la the odd couple: thanks to Alan Cabrera for the suggestion. Anyways you're going to most likely have an issue, its only a matter of time. I'm trying to say this nicely and want you to have a smooth entry. I don't know if you have a choice on this one, but I am not an expert on this topic. I just saw the issue and pointed it out. You might want to run this by legal-discuss@ to get their professional opinion. I've CC'd the list in this mail. Our desire to stay with the name is not merely because we like the name. > The Pig, Hive, and MapReduce teams have been talking about Howl in their > communities for 9 months now, and we are concerned that changing the name > will cause confusion in those communities. I cannot recall anyone in our > communities confusing the Howl we are talking about with the Howl OW2 > project. > > What if we call it Howl Table Manager? That would address our concerns > about confusion in our communities. Would it address the concerns expressed > on this list about confusion with Howl OW2 and your concerns about legal > liabilities for Apache? > > I'd find an IP clear name and just free myself of this all together. I'd hate to see y'all build up more traction on this name and be forced to give it up down the line. Good luck, I sincerely hope my limited knowledge of this topic is incorrect in this case and you can still keep the HOWL name. But let's ask the professionals. Best Regards, Alex On Mar 7, 2011, at 7:04 PM, Alex Karasulu wrote: > > What about the naming conflict with Howl from ObjectWeb >> [0]? >> >> Anyone address this serious issue yet? I pointed this out a while back and >> frankly am shocked not to see this resolved. >> >> HOWL has been around long before this project: 6 years >> [1]. >> >> So you're certainly not going to be able to defend your right to the name. >> >> What's going to happen when ObjectWeb finds out after an announcement >> about >> the Howl Project entering the Apache Incubator? >> >> I did not ORIGINALLY want to veto on account of this easily fixable issue >> hoping someone would address it. I suggest fixing it before entering or >> we're all going to have to deal with a big headache. I'd like to avoid >> that. >> >> Whether you change it now before entering the Apache Incubator, or you'll >> have to do so down the line when the ASF receives a cease and desist >> letter. >> Better now than in the later case since you'll still have to change it In >> the end and this way you will not have pissed off a whole lot of people. >> >> Please take this seriously. >> >> Thanks, >> Alex >> >> ----- >> [0] - http://howl.ow2.org/ >> [1] - http://goo.gl/J0uJR >> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org > > --0016e64c1664c22014049dfe146b Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Alan,

On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 8:26 PM, Alan Gates <gates@yahoo-inc.= com> wrote:
We are taking it seriously. =A0We (Howl men= tors and committers) discussed this and the consensus seemed to be we wante= d to stay with the name if possible. =A0The feedback on this list was mixed= , with many for changing it and some not worried about it. =A0So we wanted = to stick with it for now and see how it went.


I'm not here to create a problem f= or y'all. Keep in mind I +1'd the proposal even though I had some r= eservations about all of you being Yahoo'ers. You can work on that in t= he incubator - no problem to diversify while incubating.=A0

But I've been around for a while and have seen a fe= w things.=A0Let me be more specific. We had Felix which entered the incubat= or as Oscar about 5 years ago. We had a little bit of an issue there becaus= e of OW's Oscar. It was a little bit different here but still close eno= ugh to mention. It created some noise that eventually led to the Felix name= change a la the odd couple: thanks to Alan Cabrera for the suggestion.

Anyways you're going to most likely have an issue, = its only a matter of time. I'm trying to say this nicely and want you t= o have a smooth entry. I don't know if you have a choice on this one, b= ut I am not an expert on this topic. I just saw the issue and pointed it ou= t. You might want to run this by legal-discuss@ to get their professional o= pinion. I've CC'd the list in this mail.=A0

Our desire to stay with the name is not merely because we like the name. = =A0The Pig, Hive, and MapReduce teams have been talking about Howl in their= communities for 9 months now, and we are concerned that changing the name = will cause confusion in those communities. =A0I cannot recall anyone in our= communities confusing the Howl we are talking about with the Howl OW2 proj= ect.

What if we call it Howl Table Manager? =A0That would address our concerns a= bout confusion in our communities. =A0Would it address the concerns express= ed on this list about confusion with Howl OW2 and your concerns about legal= liabilities for Apache?


I'd find an IP clear name and just= free myself of this all together. I'd hate to see y'all build up m= ore traction on this name and be forced to give it up down the line.

Good luck, I sincerely hope my limited knowledge of thi= s topic is incorrect in this case and you can still keep the HOWL name. But= let's ask the professionals.

Best Regards,
Alex

On Mar 7, 2011, at 7:04 PM, Alex Karasulu wrote:

What about the naming conflict with Howl from ObjectWeb
[0]<http://howl.ow2.o= rg/>?

Anyone address this serious issue yet? I pointed this out a while back and<= br> frankly am shocked not to see this resolved.

HOWL has been around long before this project: 6 years
[1]<http://goo.gl/J0uJ= R>.

So you're certainly not going to be able to defend your right to the na= me.

What's going to happen when ObjectWeb finds out after an announcement a= bout
the Howl Project entering the Apache Incubator?

I did not ORIGINALLY want to veto on account of this easily fixable issue hoping someone would address it. I suggest fixing it before entering or
we're all going to have to deal with a big headache. I'd like to av= oid that.

Whether you change it now before entering the Apache Incubator, or you'= ll
have to do so down the line when the ASF receives a cease and desist letter= .
Better now than in the later case since you'll still have to change it = In
the end and this way you will not have pissed off a whole lot of people.
Please take this seriously.

Thanks,
Alex

-----
[0] - http://howl.ow2.or= g/
[1] - http://goo.gl/J0uJR=


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