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From sebb <seb...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [VOTE] Accept Howl as an Incubator Project
Date Wed, 09 Mar 2011 16:33:07 GMT
On 9 March 2011 16:23, Alan Gates <gates@yahoo-inc.com> wrote:
> Some context here for you.  Howl is a project that was recently accepted to
> the Incubator.

Surely it has yet to be accepted?

The VOTE thread is still ongoing, so it is a proposed project, not
accepted (yet).

> It is a proposed new component in the Hadoop eco system.
>  There is significant concern in the Incubator that this will clash with the
> name of the Howl OW2 project (http://howl.ow2.org/) and thus cause Apache
> legal troubles.  The relevant email threads can be seen at
> http://tinyurl.com/5w7y9p9 and http://tinyurl.com/4t7jjt9.  As can be seen
> in the email threads some are concerned about legal issue while some feel
> that the use of the name is acceptable.
>
> There is interest in the team proposing Howl to keep the name since the name
> has already been in use for 9 months in the Hadoop, Pig, and Hive
> communities (without confusion or legal issues I might add).  However, we
> would like to get legal's input on whether using Howl for this project name
> presents a risk for Apache.  Thanks.
>
> Alan.
>
> On Mar 8, 2011, at 12:01 PM, Alex Karasulu wrote:
>
>> Hi Alan,
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 8:26 PM, Alan Gates <gates@yahoo-inc.com> wrote:
>>
>>> We are taking it seriously.  We (Howl mentors and committers) discussed
>>> this and the consensus seemed to be we wanted to stay with the name if
>>> possible.  The feedback on this list was mixed, with many for changing it
>>> and some not worried about it.  So we wanted to stick with it for now and
>>> see how it went.
>>>
>>>
>> I'm not here to create a problem for y'all. Keep in mind I +1'd the
>> proposal
>> even though I had some reservations about all of you being Yahoo'ers. You
>> can work on that in the incubator - no problem to diversify while
>> incubating.
>>
>> But I've been around for a while and have seen a few things. Let me be
>> more
>> specific. We had Felix which entered the incubator as Oscar about 5 years
>> ago. We had a little bit of an issue there because of OW's Oscar. It was a
>> little bit different here but still close enough to mention. It created
>> some
>> noise that eventually led to the Felix name change a la the odd couple:
>> thanks to Alan Cabrera for the suggestion.
>>
>> Anyways you're going to most likely have an issue, its only a matter of
>> time. I'm trying to say this nicely and want you to have a smooth entry. I
>> don't know if you have a choice on this one, but I am not an expert on
>> this
>> topic. I just saw the issue and pointed it out. You might want to run this
>> by legal-discuss@ to get their professional opinion. I've CC'd the list in
>> this mail.
>>
>> Our desire to stay with the name is not merely because we like the name.
>>>
>>> The Pig, Hive, and MapReduce teams have been talking about Howl in their
>>> communities for 9 months now, and we are concerned that changing the name
>>> will cause confusion in those communities.  I cannot recall anyone in our
>>> communities confusing the Howl we are talking about with the Howl OW2
>>> project.
>>>
>>> What if we call it Howl Table Manager?  That would address our concerns
>>> about confusion in our communities.  Would it address the concerns
>>> expressed
>>> on this list about confusion with Howl OW2 and your concerns about legal
>>> liabilities for Apache?
>>>
>>>
>> I'd find an IP clear name and just free myself of this all together. I'd
>> hate to see y'all build up more traction on this name and be forced to
>> give
>> it up down the line.
>>
>> Good luck, I sincerely hope my limited knowledge of this topic is
>> incorrect
>> in this case and you can still keep the HOWL name. But let's ask the
>> professionals.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Alex
>>
>> On Mar 7, 2011, at 7:04 PM, Alex Karasulu wrote:
>>>
>>> What about the naming conflict with Howl from ObjectWeb
>>>>
>>>> [0]<http://howl.ow2.org/>?
>>>>
>>>> Anyone address this serious issue yet? I pointed this out a while back
>>>> and
>>>> frankly am shocked not to see this resolved.
>>>>
>>>> HOWL has been around long before this project: 6 years
>>>> [1]<http://goo.gl/J0uJR>.
>>>>
>>>> So you're certainly not going to be able to defend your right to the
>>>> name.
>>>>
>>>> What's going to happen when ObjectWeb finds out after an announcement
>>>> about
>>>> the Howl Project entering the Apache Incubator?
>>>>
>>>> I did not ORIGINALLY want to veto on account of this easily fixable
>>>> issue
>>>> hoping someone would address it. I suggest fixing it before entering or
>>>> we're all going to have to deal with a big headache. I'd like to avoid
>>>> that.
>>>>
>>>> Whether you change it now before entering the Apache Incubator, or
>>>> you'll
>>>> have to do so down the line when the ASF receives a cease and desist
>>>> letter.
>>>> Better now than in the later case since you'll still have to change it
>>>> In
>>>> the end and this way you will not have pissed off a whole lot of people.
>>>>
>>>> Please take this seriously.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Alex
>>>>
>>>> -----
>>>> [0] - http://howl.ow2.org/
>>>> [1] - http://goo.gl/J0uJR
>>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>
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