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From Alan Gates <ga...@yahoo-inc.com>
Subject Re: [VOTE] Accept Howl as an Incubator Project
Date Wed, 09 Mar 2011 16:23:52 GMT
Some context here for you.  Howl is a project that was recently  
accepted to the Incubator.  It is a proposed new component in the  
Hadoop eco system.  There is significant concern in the Incubator that  
this will clash with the name of the Howl OW2 project (http://howl.ow2.org/ 
) and thus cause Apache legal troubles.  The relevant email threads  
can be seen at http://tinyurl.com/5w7y9p9 and http://tinyurl.com/ 
4t7jjt9.  As can be seen in the email threads some are concerned about  
legal issue while some feel that the use of the name is acceptable.

There is interest in the team proposing Howl to keep the name since  
the name has already been in use for 9 months in the Hadoop, Pig, and  
Hive communities (without confusion or legal issues I might add).   
However, we would like to get legal's input on whether using Howl for  
this project name presents a risk for Apache.  Thanks.

Alan.

On Mar 8, 2011, at 12:01 PM, Alex Karasulu wrote:

> Hi Alan,
>
> On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 8:26 PM, Alan Gates <gates@yahoo-inc.com>  
> wrote:
>
>> We are taking it seriously.  We (Howl mentors and committers)  
>> discussed
>> this and the consensus seemed to be we wanted to stay with the name  
>> if
>> possible.  The feedback on this list was mixed, with many for  
>> changing it
>> and some not worried about it.  So we wanted to stick with it for  
>> now and
>> see how it went.
>>
>>
> I'm not here to create a problem for y'all. Keep in mind I +1'd the  
> proposal
> even though I had some reservations about all of you being  
> Yahoo'ers. You
> can work on that in the incubator - no problem to diversify while
> incubating.
>
> But I've been around for a while and have seen a few things. Let me  
> be more
> specific. We had Felix which entered the incubator as Oscar about 5  
> years
> ago. We had a little bit of an issue there because of OW's Oscar. It  
> was a
> little bit different here but still close enough to mention. It  
> created some
> noise that eventually led to the Felix name change a la the odd  
> couple:
> thanks to Alan Cabrera for the suggestion.
>
> Anyways you're going to most likely have an issue, its only a matter  
> of
> time. I'm trying to say this nicely and want you to have a smooth  
> entry. I
> don't know if you have a choice on this one, but I am not an expert  
> on this
> topic. I just saw the issue and pointed it out. You might want to  
> run this
> by legal-discuss@ to get their professional opinion. I've CC'd the  
> list in
> this mail.
>
> Our desire to stay with the name is not merely because we like the  
> name.
>> The Pig, Hive, and MapReduce teams have been talking about Howl in  
>> their
>> communities for 9 months now, and we are concerned that changing  
>> the name
>> will cause confusion in those communities.  I cannot recall anyone  
>> in our
>> communities confusing the Howl we are talking about with the Howl OW2
>> project.
>>
>> What if we call it Howl Table Manager?  That would address our  
>> concerns
>> about confusion in our communities.  Would it address the concerns  
>> expressed
>> on this list about confusion with Howl OW2 and your concerns about  
>> legal
>> liabilities for Apache?
>>
>>
> I'd find an IP clear name and just free myself of this all together.  
> I'd
> hate to see y'all build up more traction on this name and be forced  
> to give
> it up down the line.
>
> Good luck, I sincerely hope my limited knowledge of this topic is  
> incorrect
> in this case and you can still keep the HOWL name. But let's ask the
> professionals.
>
> Best Regards,
> Alex
>
> On Mar 7, 2011, at 7:04 PM, Alex Karasulu wrote:
>>
>> What about the naming conflict with Howl from ObjectWeb
>>> [0]<http://howl.ow2.org/>?
>>>
>>> Anyone address this serious issue yet? I pointed this out a while  
>>> back and
>>> frankly am shocked not to see this resolved.
>>>
>>> HOWL has been around long before this project: 6 years
>>> [1]<http://goo.gl/J0uJR>.
>>>
>>> So you're certainly not going to be able to defend your right to  
>>> the name.
>>>
>>> What's going to happen when ObjectWeb finds out after an  
>>> announcement
>>> about
>>> the Howl Project entering the Apache Incubator?
>>>
>>> I did not ORIGINALLY want to veto on account of this easily  
>>> fixable issue
>>> hoping someone would address it. I suggest fixing it before  
>>> entering or
>>> we're all going to have to deal with a big headache. I'd like to  
>>> avoid
>>> that.
>>>
>>> Whether you change it now before entering the Apache Incubator, or  
>>> you'll
>>> have to do so down the line when the ASF receives a cease and desist
>>> letter.
>>> Better now than in the later case since you'll still have to  
>>> change it In
>>> the end and this way you will not have pissed off a whole lot of  
>>> people.
>>>
>>> Please take this seriously.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Alex
>>>
>>> -----
>>> [0] - http://howl.ow2.org/
>>> [1] - http://goo.gl/J0uJR
>>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>


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