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From "Mattmann, Chris A (388J)" <chris.a.mattm...@jpl.nasa.gov>
Subject Re: [May 2010 Board Meeting] Apache Tika report comment
Date Fri, 21 May 2010 06:52:53 GMT
Hey Greg,

Thanks to you back for your guidance and positive attitude. I appreciate it!

I'm happy to contact them, but I'd like to hear back from you and Roy (I just sent an email
about this) first to determine whether I can simply update NOTICE and LICENSE or if I need
to take the step to reach out.

Let me know what you think and thanks!

Cheers,
Chris



On 5/20/10 2:11 AM, "Greg Stein" <gstein@gmail.com> wrote:

Chris: thanks for following up on this!

Henri's got all the basics laid out well here, but I think you must
contact the NetCDF folks for clarification. Get a statement from them
on what they *intended* with their language. Describe the approach
that Henri lays out, and ask them, "is this sufficient to meet your
license's requirements?"

Remember: we're not simply trying to meet the *letter* of their
license, but also their *intent*. We want to be good people here, and
to respect their wishes.

I suspect they'll be totally cool with whatever resolution we propose,
but we *must* ask them so that we know we're following their wishes.
This "paper trail" will also help should any questions arise in the
future.

Cheers,
-g

On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 01:34, Henri Yandell <bayard@apache.org> wrote:
> Ah - publication as in a particular type of documentation (i.e. it's
> not intended that a website or documentation talking about using
> Tika's NetCDF related features has to mention UCAR/Unidata).
>
> So +1 to this being an attribution license instead of an advertising
> license. Though if you give them a kick to update their latest
> releases (4.1, 4.2) with the license on their website [i.e. the 'this
> is not an obligation'] then it would be a better world.
>
> In terms of NOTICE.txt; I go with the following:
>
> * If putting in your own source code, then add the 3rd party license
> text to the end of your LICENSE file and put in the NOTICE:
>
> "Copyright 1993-2010 University Corporation for Atmospheric Research/Unidata
> This software contains code derived from UCAR/Unidata's NetCDF library."
>
> If it's an unmodified jar file (or directory, or tar.gz, js file,
> or...), then I would place their license text next to the jar
> (netcdf-4.2.license next to netcdf-4.2.jar for example), and I would
> consider that to satisfy the attribution request.
>
> It's a personal style, an alternative is to treat the latter case in
> the same way as the former.
>
> The reason for my latter approach being that if you include a 3rd
> party work in unmodified form, you are highly likely to update it in
> the future. In which case you want it to be very obvious that you need
> to also get an updated license file. If however you incorporate it
> into your source, it's much less likely and it's better to treat it as
> akin to your source.
>
> YMMV.
>
> Hen
>
> On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 9:45 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J)
> <chris.a.mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
>> Hi Hen,
>>
>> Yep, I think they are more concerned with scientific publications made with
>> their software than anything else like I said in my earlier email.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Chris
>>
>>
>>
>> On 5/19/10 12:31 PM, "Henri Yandell" <bayard@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>> I pondered that, but I think 'request' as a word is firm enough that I
>> wouldn't consider that optional.
>>
>> I suspect however that they added 'not an obligation' later, in which
>> case I think it shows intent for 'request' to be optional. Hoping
>> Chris can winnow out a story behind the history here.
>>
>> Hen
>>
>> On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 11:00 AM, Jim Jagielski <jim@apache.org> wrote:
>>> I guess the crux is what does "request" mean in these types
>>> of documents...
>>> On May 19, 2010, at 1:51 PM, Henri Yandell wrote:
>>>
>>>> My gut is that mandatory advertising clause licenses are out (Category
>>>> X).
>>>>
>>>> That would include Apache Software License 1.0 (barely used), and
>>>> OpenSSL (fork of ASL 1.0).
>>>>
>>>> The issue here would appear to be which license applies. Is it the one
>>>> with:
>>>>
>>>> "Further, UCAR requests that the user credit UCAR/Unidata in any
>>>> publications that result from the use of this software or in any
>>>> product that includes this software."
>>>>
>>>> or the one with:
>>>>
>>>> "Further, UCAR requests that the user credit UCAR/Unidata in any
>>>> publications that result from the use of this software or in any
>>>> product that includes this software, although this is not an
>>>> obligation. "
>>>>
>>>> The former would count as a mandatory advertising clause, the latter
>>>> is optional.
>>>>
>>>> Can you work out which license applies Chris? Is the former coming out
>>>> of the download while the latter is on the website?
>>>>
>>>> Hen
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 10:23 AM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J)
>>>> <chris.a.mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Guys,
>>>>>
>>>>> As directed by the Board, I'm forwarding the below to ask you guys to
>>>>> check
>>>>> out the NetCDF NCAR license. Apache Tika is using the NetCDF Java
>>>>> library
>>>>> [1] as part of TIKA-400 [2], which has yet to be released in any
>>>>> official
>>>>> Tika version, but is part of the 0.8 trunk currently in development.
I
>>>>> believed that since the license claimed to be MIT compatible [3] that
it
>>>>> was
>>>>> ASL friendly, but Greg Stein raised the issue below, so wanted to check
>>>>> with
>>>>> you guys about it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Please let me know what you think.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks so much.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Chris
>>>>>
>>>>> [1] http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/software/netcdf-java/
>>>>> [2] http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/TIKA-400
>>>>> [3] http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/software/netcdf/copyright.html
>>>>>
>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
>>>>> Senior Computer Scientist
>>>>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
>>>>> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
>>>>> Email: Chris.Mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov
>>>>> WWW:   http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
>>>>> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------ Forwarded Message
>>>>> From: "Mattmann, Chris A (388J)" <chris.a.mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov>
>>>>> Reply-To: <board@apache.org>
>>>>> Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 09:57:05 -0700
>>>>> To: ASF Board <board@apache.org>
>>>>> Subject: [May 2010 Board Meeting] Apache Tika report comment
>>>>>
>>>>> Hey Guys,
>>>>>
>>>>> I noticed the following comment on the Tika report:
>>>>>
>>>>> <snip>
>>>>> this (dependency) license appears to have an
>>>>>
>>>>> "advertising" clause in it:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://svn.unidata.ucar.edu/repos/thredds/trunk/cdm/license.txt
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> jj: Have them follup-up w/ legal.
>>>>> </snip>
>>>>>
>>>>> Is the license referenced by Greg above the same one as this?
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/software/netcdf/copyright.html
>>>>>
>>>>> That's the only one I could find on NetCDF as I noted in TIKA-399 [1],
>>>>> so I
>>>>> wasn't sure where the one from the repo above came from.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd be happy to follow up with legal though -- how do I do that? Just
>>>>> send
>>>>> an email to legal@apache.org and ask them to review the license?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks a bunch.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Chris
>>>>>
>>>>> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/TIKA-399
>>>>>
>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
>>>>> Senior Computer Scientist
>>>>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
>>>>> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
>>>>> Email: Chris.Mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov
>>>>> WWW:   http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
>>>>> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------ End of Forwarded Message
>>>>>
>>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
>> Senior Computer Scientist
>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
>> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
>> Email: Chris.Mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov
>> WWW:   http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
>> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>
>>
>
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++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
Senior Computer Scientist
NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
Email: Chris.Mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov
WWW:   http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


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