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From Grant Ingersoll <gsing...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Carrot2 License
Date Tue, 15 Sep 2009 12:46:24 GMT
See below.
On Sep 15, 2009, at 6:45 AM, Grant Ingersoll wrote:

>
> On Sep 14, 2009, at 4:49 PM, Niclas Hedhman wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 9:36 PM, Grant Ingersoll  
>> <gsingers@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>>> No algorithms or technical solutions in the project may be  
>>> patented or
>>> claimed proprietary.
>>
>> This requirement is so vague and inconsistent, I can't even try to
>> figure out what they meant.
>>
>> What does "project" refer to?
>>
>> If it refers to the code in Carrot project, it seems Ok, since once  
>> we
>> leave the Carrot project realm, it says nothing. But if it refers to
>> downstream user's projects/products, then it is worse than GPL.
>>
>> Would it be possible to get an explanation from the people behind it,
>> what did they intend?
>
> Yes, I will contact them.
>


My contact email:
Hi Dawid and Stazek,

Henri, below, has raised some concerns about including Carrot2 in ASF  
releases.  There are two main concerns:

1. FastVector is Sun non-commercial code.
2. The patent clause in your license.  It is a bit vague who the  
project refers to.  See http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/www-legal-discuss/200909.mbox/browser

I appreciate any help/insight you can give us.

 From Stazek:

That seems some very old code dating back to 2000-ish. Dawid has  
recently reimplemented STC without relying on FastVector, though we  
initially thought we'd keep the new version in a branch until 3.1  
releases:

http://fisheye3.atlassian.com/browse/carrot2/trunk/core/carrot2-algorithm-stc/src/org/carrot2/clustering/stc/FastVector.java

Now I think that we may want to the merge this for 3.1 release or  
customize the distribution for Solr and remove the old STC from it.  
Let me look into this in more depth later today.

Also, thanks for the general screening, that's very useful! When Dawid  
gets back from his holiday in a few days, I'll discuss with him the  
issues about C2 license that were raised. Incidentally, would you be  
able to recommend someone who could help us with reviewing these and  
answer some potential questions on our side?

 From Dawid Weiss:

> 1. FastVector is Sun non-commercial code.

We should be able to replace this with something more convenient. In
fact, if it's only used by STC (and I believe it is), then it has been
removed in the patch already in 3.2.0 branch.

> 2. The patent clause in your license.  It is a bit vague who the  
> project
> refers to.
>  See http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/www-legal-discuss/200909.mbox/browser

This is my bad legal talk. What we wanted to achieve would be to
prevent somebody from filing a patent on the clustering algorithms
implemented inside the project (some of them are novel). I believe if
we publish an algorithm in the research field then it automatically
becomes non-patentable... is this correct? One case that springs to my
mind is the use of hyperbolic trees for visualization -- it has been
patented (by Xerox, I believe) even though the math and concepts
behind it had been known for years before Xerox filed for the patent.

If Apache legal folks know how to formulate this better, we would
welcome help here. I am also +1 for switching to regular new BSD text,
should this make things easier on the legal side of things.

---------------------------





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