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From Nathan Beyer <ndbe...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Clarification on the release requirements
Date Wed, 29 Apr 2009 04:04:24 GMT
I'd agree that the policy Roy mentioned isn't concretely defined in a
single document, but I think it's more than just an oral history.

Between the HTTP Server's release doc [1], which documents the exact
steps Roy mentioned, and release documents in /dev [2], I believe the
intent is there. Most of the docs related to releases actually ask for
help [3] to be completed.

What are people waiting for to submit patches to these documents?

BTW - it seems like it's time to move this discussion elsewhere, as
this has gone past legal questions and into ASF policy, though I'm not
sure where would be best to move it.


[1] http://httpd.apache.org/dev/release.html
[2] http://www.apache.org/dev/#releases
[3] http://www.apache.org/dev/release-signing.html#help

On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 10:05 PM, John Casey <casey.john.d@gmail.com> wrote:
> IMHO, we're in a position to do better than an oral history for Apache.
> I know we've all spent quite a lot of time over the years implementing
> someone else's specification. That's what we've tried to do with
> Maven, to the best of our understanding. We've revised the plugin
> suite time and again to accommodate (and improve our adherence to) the
> release process as we understood it here at ASF. Obviously, there are
> quite a few fairly prominent people around here who can't agree on how
> to release software, so why on earth would we not write something up
> that reflects the concreteness being expressed here? If we did,
> authors of build tools might have a specification to follow, and get
> this right.
> I for one have no interest whatsoever in which alternative is
> "correct". My only interest is finding a clear, well-documented set of
> standards that I can implement in Maven.
> BTW, listing those standards in this thread is not good enough IMO.
> There needs to be a good place where people like me can go to learn
> (and use as a reference) what _exactly_ is the Apache Way.
> Cheers,
> -john
> On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 10:01 PM, Brian Fox <brianf@infinity.nu> wrote:
>> Niclas Hedhman wrote:
>>> On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 9:44 AM, Brian Fox <brianf@infinity.nu> wrote:
>>>> How can you audit the PMCs when these policies are not even documented
>>>> anywhere? Perhaps the membership isn't even aware of these policies to
>>>> start
>>>> with and thus there might be wide disagreement? One can't know until it's
>>>> written down and everyone can see it clearly.
>>> I wrote somewhere "advisory audit", meaning detection in malpractice
>>> and help to rectify.
>>> Clarifications to documents is of course better, BUT it also feels
>>> that ASF has grown so fast that many don't get TheApacheWay in this
>>> area, which saddens me.
>> Clarifications to the documents is the _only_ way to solve this once and for
>> all...otherwise everything is just an opinion, there's nothing official. If
>> there is, please point me to it. I think the process as described so far is
>> pretty overbearing, but that's just my opinion for now and as such pretty
>> irrelevant. We can't really build a proper process on unofficial opinions,
>> mine or anyone else's. (well we could, but then we'd be back to the
>> discussion again and again).
>> I can hear the passion in Roy's emails but what surprises me is that if it's
>> so fundamental and passionate, that it is completely not covered anywhere
>> public. And because of that, the current (seemingly not legit process) is so
>> widespread throughout the organization, which no offense intended, makes me
>> curious if we have the whole story so far.
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> --
> John Casey
> ---
> Maven Developer (http://maven.apache.org)
> ---
> Blog: http://www.ejlife.net/blogs/buildchimp
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