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From Grant Ingersoll <gsing...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Data Donation
Date Mon, 10 Nov 2008 19:53:49 GMT

On Nov 10, 2008, at 12:16 PM, Lawrence Rosen wrote:

> Grant Ingersoll asked:
>> At any rate, what do others think?  Would it be an issue if the ASF
>> distributed this data?
> If ASF were to distribute certain blog data ourselves, we would have  
> to take
> reasonable steps to honor whatever copyrights exist in that data. Do I
> understand correctly that this is an option that we're *not*  
> interested in
> pursuing?

Well, we could go do a crawl ourselves using a something like Nutch  
that honors robots.txt, but that takes up a lot of bandwidth, time and  
effort, so, I personally am not interested in doing it when someone  
else has and is willing to donate it to us.

> We shouldn't be concerned about reading anything at all that someone  
> else
> makes accessible in a public way without restriction. That does not  
> involve
> our copying and distribution, except peripherally through our  
> individual
> browsers. That is like reading a book in a library; we don't concern
> ourselves whether the library itself has honored copyrights.
> If I'm misunderstanding this offer, please explain.

I'm not concerned about reading, I'm concerned about writing/copying.   
In other words, are we at risk if we make a copy of their donated data  
(which they do not have copyright for) and we then redistribute it.  I  
think your library argument says we are not at risk and I tend to  
agree.  However, this seems slightly different, since, in the library  
case, they are not making a copy but are instead providing access to a  
copy.  Whereas we are making a copy, it seems, and providing an easy  
means for others to do so as well.  Of course, I suppose by that  
logic, one could argue that the ISPs that host the blogs are making  
copies too, and that just seems like a slippery slope.

Just to be clear, I would very much like to distribute this data via  
the ASF and want to know if there is any obvious reason not to proceed  
or if there is anything in particular I should do before moving forward.

> /Larry
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Grant Ingersoll [mailto:gsingers@apache.org]
>> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 7:46 AM
>> To: legal-discuss@apache.org
>> Subject: Data Donation
>> Hi,
>> I have a contact from a company that distributes blog data who is
>> willing to donate/provide access to the data without restrictions.
>> It's about 50 GBs and is of limited commercial value to them, since  
>> it
>> is older data.  It, however, useful to us in Lucene.  The main  
>> concern
>> I have at this point, that I can't quite get my head, is the notion  
>> of
>> copyright on the data.  There are two scenarios, I think:
>> 1. They host the data and we merely link to it.
>> 2. We host the data and make it available to all.
>> In case #1, I don't think there is really an issue w/ copyright,  
>> since
>> people are downloading it themselves, we are just providing a link.
>> In case #2, it seems a little fuzzier.  The company explicitly tells
>> their customers that it is up to the person downloading to respect  
>> the
>> copyright laws of their jurisdiction.  In other words, they are  
>> merely
>> facilitating access.  I think the case is similar to the one that
>> Google makes in terms of their caching of webpages.   I don't know if
>> this argument is just putting their head in the sand or not.  I
>> suppose it would come down to whether or not a blogger would sue over
>> inclusion of their site in the collection.
>> As of now, let's assume the company honors robots.txt when crawling,
>> if that matters at all in your responses.  I don't know if they do or
>> not, but I would guess they do.
>> At any rate, what do others think?  Would it be an issue if the ASF
>> distributed this data?
>> -Grant

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