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From "Mahmood, Anwar" <anwar.mahm...@logicacmg.com>
Subject RE: [Fwd: Re: License]
Date Fri, 22 Dec 2006 13:48:24 GMT
Dear Mr Fielding,

Re your email

On the points you raise ;

1) Yes we are looking to grant Apache a license to use the Software. We
acknowledge we do not need a license back of the Software itself however
we do seek a license of any changes Apache makes or open source
contributors make, I have amended the draft accordingly. I see no
inconsistency with copyright law which grants rights of copyright
ownership to the creator of a work. Development is creation if you want
to say creator we can do so.

2) On this issue we disagree with you. Let us be clear we are only
making the software available with the express condition it is kept open
source there is no negotiation on this. You will have no commercial
exploitation rights so your requirement is a non starter.

3) There will be limitations I don't agree with your view at all.

You seem to have overlooked that we are offering this Software without
charge for the benefit of the whole open source community the license
must and will be compatible with these objectives. It is suggested that
you rethink your non conciliatory stance on this as the proposal as it
is for mutual and charitable benefit. 


Anwar Mahmood

Legal Director 



LogicaCMG - Releasing your potential


2 Trinity Park
B37 7ES
United Kingdom

Tel: +44 (0)121 787 0000
Direct Dial: +44 (0) 121 787 0359
Mobile: +44 (0) 7779 326286




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-----Original Message-----
From: Roy T. Fielding [mailto:fielding@gbiv.com] 
Sent: 21 December 2006 23:58
To: akarasulu@apache.org
Cc: legal-discuss@apache.org; Kunchur, Nitin; Mahmood, Anwar
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: License]

My opinion is that the changes are not acceptable.  There seems to be
several misunderstandings involved.

   1) the software grant is a license from the owner of the intellectual
property within the software code to the Apache Software Foundation.
It is not a copyright assignment, so including a license back to the
owner is unnecessary -- the owner still owns all rights to the code
aside from the right to exclusively license it to someone else.
Changing the wording from "owner" to "developer" is also incorrect
because it is inconsistent with the laws regarding copyright.

   2) The Apache Software Foundation is a nonprofit charity for which
distributing code as open source is guaranteed by its purpose as
incorporated in Delaware.  Nevertheless, we need ALL of the legal rights
of the copyright owner licensed to the ASF in order for us to sublicense
ALL of those rights under our open source license.
Removing the commercial rights is a non-starter.

   3) We don't accept limitations on our ability to redistribute, even
when those limitations are compatible with our mission.  If you wish, an
appropriate attribution can be added in the form described by the NOTICE
file in our license -- you can see such attributions in many of the
other Apache products.  The ASF will honor all such notices to the
extent they are factual and not overtly commercial in nature.


On Dec 19, 2006, at 8:24 PM, Alex Karasulu wrote:

> [Excuse earlier email to legal-internal which bounced]
> Hello,
> I've been talking to a company called LogicaCMG which contributed 
> asyncWeb to safehaus.org.
> AsyncWeb is a web server implemented using MINA.  It's very fast and 
> many people would like to see it absorbed into the MINA TLP project 
> which just recently formed.
> The problem with bringing it the ASF is that we need a software grant 
> from LogicaCMG.  Unfortunately their lawyers seem to have a problem 
> with out software grant.
> I have asked their lawyer, Mahmood Anwar, list their issues so that I 
> can bring them to a legal list.  BTW they tried to contact the 
> legal-discuss list but for some reason because of their email servers 
> had problems getting responses.
> Regardless I'm hoping we can begin a dialog to sort out the issues Mr.
> Anwar has with the software grant document.
> Regards,
> Alex Karasulu
> From: "Mahmood, Anwar" <anwar.mahmood@logicacmg.com>
> Date: December 15, 2006 9:19:11 AM PST
> To: <akarasulu@apache.org>
> Cc: "Kunchur, Nitin" <nitin.kunchur@logicacmg.com>
> Subject: RE: License
> Dear Alex,
> As promised I have made a few changes to your standard license grant 
> to cover the following LogicaCMG concerns;
> 1. That Apache has a commitment to make the Software and its 
> developments to it open source and royalty free. There is currently no

> such commitment and the license even refers to Apache selling.
> 2. Comfort for LCMG that it gets an immediate license back on your 
> open source license.
> 3. No warranties or representation by LogicaCMG for what it is making 
> available free.
> 4. Some comfort that you will promote LogicaCMG involvement and 
> development of the Software.
> I trust the changes will not be contentious and look forward to your 
> response.
> Kind regards and good week end
> Anwar
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kunchur, Nitin
> Sent: 14 December 2006 14:27
> To: 'akarasulu@apache.org'
> Cc: Mahmood, Anwar
> Subject: RE: Test email
> Great stuff - confirming receipt.
> Nitin
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alex Karasulu [mailto:akarasulu@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Alex 
> Karasulu
> Sent: 14 December 2006 14:18
> To: Kunchur, Nitin
> Cc: Mahmood, Anwar
> Subject: Re: Test email
> Kunchur, Nitin wrote:
>> Hi Alex - can you please reply to this email to confirm receipt.
> Worked like a champ.  Just let me know that you got this.  That will 
> confirm that you can get my responses.
> Thanks,
> Alex
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> <apache License Agreement am.doc>
> <akarasulu.vcf>
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