Return-Path: Delivered-To: apmail-legal-discuss-archive@www.apache.org Received: (qmail 74354 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2006 15:26:29 -0000 Received: from hermes.apache.org (HELO mail.apache.org) (209.237.227.199) by minotaur.apache.org with SMTP; 12 Jun 2006 15:26:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 10879 invoked by uid 500); 12 Jun 2006 15:26:19 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-legal-discuss-archive@apache.org Received: (qmail 10442 invoked by uid 500); 12 Jun 2006 15:26:17 -0000 Mailing-List: contact legal-discuss-help@apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Delivered-To: mailing list legal-discuss@apache.org Received: (qmail 10424 invoked by uid 99); 12 Jun 2006 15:26:17 -0000 Received: from asf.osuosl.org (HELO asf.osuosl.org) (140.211.166.49) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 08:26:17 -0700 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=10.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE,SPF_PASS X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (asf.osuosl.org: domain of jthom@us.ibm.com designates 32.97.182.143 as permitted sender) Received: from [32.97.182.143] (HELO e3.ny.us.ibm.com) (32.97.182.143) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 08:26:14 -0700 Received: from d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (d01relay04.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.236]) by e3.ny.us.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5CFPo0p008570 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 12 Jun 2006 11:25:51 -0400 Received: from d01av04.pok.ibm.com (d01av04.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.64]) by d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (8.13.6/NCO/VER7.0) with ESMTP id k5CFPo6b223918 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 12 Jun 2006 11:25:50 -0400 Received: from d01av04.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d01av04.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k5CFPou4028202; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 11:25:50 -0400 Received: from d27ml602.rchland.ibm.com (d27ml602.rchland.ibm.com [9.10.229.17]) by d01av04.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k5CFPnMg028152; Mon, 12 Jun 2006 11:25:50 -0400 In-Reply-To: <4489FAFF.1030205@apache.org> To: Doug Cutting Cc: Legal Discuss Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] new license FAQs MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 7.0.1 Beta3NP May 09, 2006 From: Jeffrey Thompson X-MIMETrack: S/MIME Sign by Notes Client on Jeffrey Thompson/Armonk/IBM(Release 7.0.1 Beta3NP|May 09, 2006) at 06/12/2006 11:25:13 AM, Serialize by Notes Client on Jeffrey Thompson/Armonk/IBM(Release 7.0.1 Beta3NP|May 09, 2006) at 06/12/2006 11:25:13 AM, Serialize complete at 06/12/2006 11:25:13 AM, Itemize by Notes Client on Jeffrey Thompson/Armonk/IBM(Release 7.0.1 Beta3NP|May 09, 2006) at 06/12/2006 11:25:13 AM, S/MIME Sign complete at 06/12/2006 11:25:13 AM, S/MIME Sign by Notes Client on Jeffrey Thompson/Armonk/IBM(Release 7.0.1 Beta3NP|May 09, 2006) at 06/12/2006 11:25:17 AM, S/MIME Sign complete at 06/12/2006 11:25:17 AM, Serialize by Router on d27ml602/27/M/IBM(Release 7.0.1|January 17, 2006) at 06/12/2006 10:25:48 AM, Serialize complete at 06/12/2006 10:25:48 AM Message-ID: Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 10:25:46 -0500 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary=-------z7471_boundary_sign X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org X-Spam-Rating: minotaur.apache.org 1.6.2 0/1000/N ---------z7471_boundary_sign Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 0054B4A98525718B_=" This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 0054B4A98525718B_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Doug Cutting wrote on 06/09/2006 06:49:35 PM: > Here are two proposed new license FAQs, based on recent discussions > here. Do folks feel these express the intent of the ASF? > > --------------- > > Q. I'm paid to contribute to an Apache project. Does my employer have > to file a CCLA with Apache? > > A. No. The CCLA lets employers give explicit permission to their > employees to contribute to Apache. In many cases, employment > relationships (employment agreements, work-for-hire laws, etc.) would > prohibit employees from contributing to Apache. The CCLA provides a > convenient way for employers to explicitly permit their employees to > contribute, protecting employees from possible misunderstandings with > their employers. > > Employees are free to obtain permission from their employers by means > other than the CCLA if they choose. Each committer must file an ICLA > with Apache, vouching that they indeed have permission to contribute > their work. > CCLAs help clarify issues and bring certainty. Certainty on legal issues is a Good Thing(tm). So, I think we should be a little more encouraging regarding CCLAs. While they aren't required, they really are highly recommended. At least, that's my view. > --------------- > > Q. If my company owns patents, and contributes software that does not > implement those patents, is there any way that our patents might later > be implemented by another contributor and thus be subject to free licensing? > > A. No. Patents subject to free licensing are defined at the time of > contribution. If your contribution completes an implementation of your > patent at the time of contribution, then your patent is subject to free > licensing (even if you acquire your patent later). But if the > implementation of your patent is not complete until another party > subsequently contributes, that would not cause your patent to become > subject to free licensing. > As I mentioned in other notes, I don't think that answer describes the general consensus. But, in any event, the question and answer don't match up. The question asks about a patent not implemented by the contribution. The answer addresses patents that are partially implemented by the contribution. The answer to the question as posed would be more like: A. No. The patents that are licensed include only those that are infringed by the contributions by themselves or by the contributions in combination with the remainder of the code in the project -- that is, the contributions form part of the implementation of the patent and the remainder of the code includes the rest of the implementation. If the implementation of the patent doesn't involve the contributions at all, the patent is not licensed even if it is part of the same project. My 2 cents. > --------------- > > Doug > Jeff Staff Counsel, IBM Corporation (914)766-1757 (tie)8-826 (fax) -8160 (notes) jthom@ibmus (internet) jthom@us.ibm.com (home) jeff@beff.net (web) http://www.beff.net/ --=_alternative 0054B4A98525718B_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"


Doug Cutting <cutting@apache.org> wrote on 06/09/2006 06:49:35 PM:

> Here are two proposed new license FAQs, based on recent discussions
> here.  Do folks feel these express the intent of the ASF?
>
> ---------------
>
> Q. I'm paid to contribute to an Apache project.  Does my employer have
> to file a CCLA with Apache?
>
> A. No.  The CCLA lets employers give explicit permission to their
> employees to contribute to Apache.  In many cases, employment
> relationships (employment agreements, work-for-hire laws, etc.) would
> prohibit employees from contributing to Apache.  The CCLA provides a
> convenient way for employers to explicitly permit their employees to
> contribute, protecting employees from possible misunderstandings with
> their employers.
>
> Employees are free to obtain permission from their employers by means
> other than the CCLA if they choose.  Each committer must file an ICLA
> with Apache, vouching that they indeed have permission to contribute
> their work.
>

CCLAs help clarify issues and bring certainty.  Certainty on legal issues is a Good Thing(tm).  So, I think we should be a little more encouraging regarding CCLAs.  While they aren't required, they really are highly recommended.  At least, that's my view.

> ---------------
>
> Q. If my company owns patents, and contributes software that does not
> implement those patents, is there any way that our patents might later
> be implemented by another contributor and thus be subject to free licensing?
>
> A.  No.  Patents subject to free licensing are defined at the time of
> contribution.  If your contribution completes an implementation of your
> patent at the time of contribution, then your patent is subject to free
> licensing (even if you acquire your patent later).  But if the
> implementation of your patent is not complete until another party
> subsequently contributes, that would not cause your patent to become
> subject to free licensing.
>

As I mentioned in other notes, I don't think that answer describes the general consensus.  But, in any event, the question and answer don't match up.  The question asks about a patent not implemented by the contribution.  The answer addresses patents that are partially implemented by the contribution.  The answer to the question as posed would be more like:

A.  No.  The patents that are licensed include only those that are infringed by the contributions by themselves or by the contributions in combination with the remainder of the code in the project -- that is, the contributions form part of the implementation of the patent and the remainder of the code includes the rest of the implementation.  If the implementation of the patent doesn't involve the contributions at all, the patent is not licensed even if it is part of the same project.  

My 2 cents.

> ---------------
>
> Doug
>
Jeff

Staff Counsel, IBM Corporation  (914)766-1757  (tie)8-826  (fax) -8160
(notes) jthom@ibmus  (internet) jthom@us.ibm.com (home) jeff@beff.net
(web) http://www.beff.net/
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