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Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 05:47:27 -0800
From: Greg Stein <gstein@lyra.org>
To: Henri Yandell <bayard@apache.org>
Cc: legal-discuss@apache.org
Subject: Re: Jython licensing
Message-ID: <20060124134727.GY18804@lyra.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0601131741570.28615@kongo>
 <Pine.LNX.4.61.0601232359210.12019@kongo> <20060124090721.GX18804@lyra.org>
 <Pine.LNX.4.61.0601240815320.13788@kongo>
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The FSF viewed the jurisdiction thing as an "additional requirement",
thus throwing the Python license into the "incompatible camp". That
was part of a specific FSF strategy a while back to declare a bunch of
licenses incompatible with the GPL (there were one or two others
declared incompat at roughly the same time). Needless to say, it
caused a ton of pain for the Python community.

And yah. I'm bitter about it, and that episode is one of the reasons
that I'm not a particular fan of the FSF.

Ah yeah. I recall that... Clause 3's intent is to ensure that
downstream users know what you did to Jython (well, JPython, really).
It can be satisfied by adding (say) a big JYTHON-CHANGES file at the
top level or some such.

Um... I don't think we can include NPL software in any of our
releases. MPL 1.1, yes. NPL? AFAIK, no...

Cheers,
-g

On Tue, Jan 24, 2006 at 08:35:04AM -0500, Henri Yandell wrote:
> 
> The clause in the CNRI that jumped out to me is:
> 
> "3. In the event Licensee prepares a derivative work that is based on or
>    incorporates the Software or any part thereof, and wants to make the
>    derivative work available to the public as provided herein, then
>    Licensee hereby agrees to indicate in any such work, in a prominently
>    visible way, the nature of the modifications made to CNRI's Software."
> 
> However I think that's okay as modifications to Jython are licensed under 
> BSD, so I'm guessing that clause never gets invoked. Looking at the 
> mailing lists, the FSF have problems with the license because it's under 
> the jurisdiction of the state of Virginia, but I've not heard of us caring 
> about that kind of thing.
> 
> Glad to hear that it's generaly fine, so mainly just FYI-ing that we've a 
> 3rd party lib in use at the ASF that has an obscure licence that'll need 
> special mention post legal policy. Like the Rhino JavaScript library and 
> the NPL.
> 
> Hen
> 
> On Tue, 24 Jan 2006, Greg Stein wrote:
> 
> >In spirit, all of the Python licenses are BSD-ish. The variances are
> >due to CNRI's f**king legal staff. Hell, that's why it is Jython
> >rather than JPython (CNRI wouldn't donate the trademark).
> >
> >So I would say two things:
> >
> >1) philosophically and by-intents, we are totally compatible with the
> >  Python-2.0 license. I'm unfamiliar with the JPython-1.1 license,
> >  but if that is a "copy" of the early Python licenses... then great.
> >2) if somebody wants to spend a week reviewing the licenses for pure
> >  compatibility, then feel free (but is that needed?)
> >
> >btw, Python Software Foundation contributor agreements give
> >contributors two options for how they give code to the PSF: under the
> >Apache License, or under the Python-2.0 license (with the AL preferred)
> >
> >Cheers,
> >-g
> >
> >On Tue, Jan 24, 2006 at 12:10:12AM -0500, Henri Yandell wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>On Fri, 13 Jan 2006, Henri Yandell wrote:
> >>
> >>>* Jython - Seems to be a mix of a BSD and a BeOpen/CNRI license:
> >>>         http://www.jython.org/license.html
> >>
> >>Just as a followup here, seems Jython's license is a combined one:
> >>
> >> - JPython-1.1 license (cover the original sources)
> >> - Apache license (cover the ORO matcher code)
> >> - Python-2.0 license (cover most of the python modules in Lib)
> >> - BSD license (cover the changes made to JPython-1.1 sources)
> >>
> >>This looks like the question here boils down to whether we can
> >>redistribute jars licensed under the following two opensource.org
> >>licenses:
> >>
> >>http://www.opensource.org/licenses/pythonpl.php
> >>http://www.opensource.org/licenses/PythonSoftFoundation.php
> >>
> >>Any thoughts?
> >>
> >>Hen
> >>
> >>---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >>only.  Statements made on this list are not privileged, do not
> >>constitute legal advice, and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
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> >>official ASF policies and documents.
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> >
> >-- 
> >Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/
> >
> >---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >DISCLAIMER: Discussions on this list are informational and educational
> >only.  Statements made on this list are not privileged, do not
> >constitute legal advice, and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
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> >official ASF policies and documents.
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> >
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> DISCLAIMER: Discussions on this list are informational and educational
> only.  Statements made on this list are not privileged, do not
> constitute legal advice, and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
> and policies of the ASF.  See <http://www.apache.org/licenses/> for
> official ASF policies and documents.
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-- 
Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/

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official ASF policies and documents.
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