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From Paul Fremantle <pzf...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Using Hibernate in an Apache Project
Date Thu, 22 Dec 2005 09:44:10 GMT
Cliff

What if we offer the hibernate objects as one option with equivalent
function available to non-hibernate users?

(However, if we go to the effort of building a non-hibernate option we may
not bother with the Hibernate option)

Paul

On 12/22/05, Chamikara Jayalath <chamikaramj@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Cliff,
>
> Thanx for the advices :)
>
> Actually the part that uses Hibernate comes as a plugin to the Sandesha2
> framework. To be precise Sandesha2 is an WS-RM implementation for Axis2.
> Even without this part users can perfectly use Sandesha2 as an in-memory
> WS-RM implementation.  This plugin will only be needed by users who want to
> get permanent storage based reliability. So the Sandesha2 project will not
> have a strict dependency on Hibernate.
>
> When it comes to building the source code, I believe we can put a maven
> dependency that will download the Hibernate jar to the client machines when
> the source get builded, without having it in the Apache repository.
>
> Thank you,
> Chamikara
>
>
>
> On 12/22/05, Cliff Schmidt <cliffschmidt@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > On 12/21/05, Chamikara Jayalath <chamikaramj@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Hi Cliff,
> > >
> > >  Actually what we want to commit is some code written by us which will
> > go
> > > under Apache License (Not LGPL). Only thing is this code will refer to
> > some
> > > Hibernate classes. It is great if we can give the hibernate jar with
> > our
> > > distribution, but even if not we can still ask the users to download
> > it
> > > seperately.
> > >
> > >  So what we actually have are following two problems.
> > >
> >
> > First of all, let me again emphasize that my answers are based on a
> > *proposed* policy, not on anything official just yet.  However, there
> > is no existing policy that allows distribution or hard dependencies on
> > LGPL.
> >
> > (answering in reverse order, because question #2 is easier...)
> >
> > >  2. Can we include Hibernate jar in the Apache Sandesa2 distributions.
> >
> >
> > No.  That would mean including LGPL-licensed software within an ASF
> > product.
> >
> > >  1. Can we commit source code that goes under Apache licence but will
> > refer
> > > to some classes of the Hibernate framework (which goes under LGPL).
> >
> > Only if the Sandesha project (and, transitively, any Apache project
> > that depends on Sandesha) is "rechartered" to be targeted exclusively
> > at users who have Hibernate on their classpath.  Anything required for
> > the product to operate is either part of the Apache product or part of
> > the user's environment (OS, VM, containers, standard libraries, etc.).
> > LGPL-licensed software can't be in the product; therefore, the only
> > role an LGPL component can play is as part of the user's environment.
> > IMO, it is up to the WS PMC to decide whether it is appropriate that
> > the Sandesha product is only targeted to Hibernate users.
> >
> > Note that I don't believe there is any problem with ASF products
> > referencing classes in a user's environment, regardless of how those
> > classes are licensed.  The question is whether a product should be
> > restricted to that environment.
> >
> > Cliff
> >
> > > On 12/22/05, Cliff Schmidt < cliffschmidt@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > I'm just about to propose a licensing policy, based on the input
> > I've
> > > > gotten from various mailing lists, the PMCs, and lots of folks at
> > > > ApacheCon.  I can't tell you how the proposal will be received, but
> > I
> > > > can tell you that it would not allow the distribution of LGPL code
> > > > within an Apache product.
> > > >
> > > > Stay tuned on this list for details within the next few days.
> > > >
> > > > Cliff
> > > >
> > > > On 12/21/05, Chamikara Jayalath <chamikaramj@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > >  We have some uncommitted code related to Apache Sandesha project
> > that
> > > uses
> > > > > Hibernate. We can commit them to the the Sandesha2 SVN if this has
> > been
> > > > > solved.
> > > > >
> > > > >  Has the license issue been resolved now ?
> > > > >
> > > > >  Thank you,
> > > > >  Chamikara
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 10/28/05, Cliff Schmidt <cliffschmidt@gmail.com > wrote:
> > > > > > At this point, the answer is "no".  There has been discussion
of
> > > > > > having a policy to allow using and/or distributing LGPL, but
> > that
> > > > > > discussion has not been resolved yet.  I will do everything
I
> > can to
> > > > > > have the issue resolved by ApacheCon (Dec 10-14); but I can't
> > tell you
> > > > > > how it will be resolved just yet.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cliff
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 10/27/05, Jaliya Ekanayake <jaliya@opensource.lk> wrote:
> > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > We are implementing Apache Sandesha2 these days and wanted
to
> > know
> > > the
> > > > > > > possibility of using Hibernate in this project.
> > > > > > > Hibernate comes with LGPL and think that it is restrictive
> > than our
> > > > > license.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Please advice.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Jaliya Ekanayake
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: "Davanum Srinivas" <davanum@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > To: "Jaliya Ekanayake" < jaliya@opensource.lk >
> > > > > > > Cc: "Sanka Samaranayake" <ssanka@gmail.com>;
> > > > > < sandesha-dev@ws.apache.org>;
> > > > > > > "Sanjiva Weerawarana" <sanjiva@opensource.lk>
> > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 1:50 PM
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Sandehsa2] Implementing a persistence layer
of
> > storage
> > > > > beans
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Please ask on legal-discuss@apache.org mailing list.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > thanks,
> > > > > > > dims
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 10/27/05, Jaliya Ekanayake < jaliya@opensource.lk>
wrote:
> > > > > > > > Hi Sanka,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The idea is good but the problem is Hibernate has
 LGPL
> > whcih is a
> > > > > > > > restrictive licence than ASF Licence.
> > > > > > > > Need some expert advice on this.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Jaliya
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > From: "Sanka Samaranayake" < ssanka@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > To: <sandesha-dev@ws.apache.org>
> > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 10:42 PM
> > > > > > > > Subject: [Sandehsa2] Implementing a persistence layer
of
> > storage
> > > beans
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hi Guys,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Since Sandesha architecture is based upon storage
beans,
> > its
> > > clear
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > we
> > > > > > > > > need to have a persistence layer that maps these
beans to
> > the
> > > > > database.
> > > > > > > > > We thought of developing our own layer (and partly
did it
> > :) ).
> > > But
> > > > > when
> > > > > > > > > it came to think transactions and stale object
management
> > we
> > > thought
> > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > great if we use a proven framework like Hibernate
instead
> > of
> > > > > developing
> > > > > > > > > our own persistence layer.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Can we use Hibernate for Sandesha (with derby
as the
> > database)
> > > and
> > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > there any *license issues*?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Best,
> > > > > > > > > --Sanka
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > > > > sandesha-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> > > > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > sandesha-dev-help@ws.apache.org
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > > > > sandesha-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> > > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > sandesha-dev-help@ws.apache.org
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Davanum Srinivas : http://wso2.com/blogs/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > DISCLAIMER: Discussions on this list are informational
and
> > > educational
> > > > > > > only, are not privileged and do not constitute legal advice.
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > > > > legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
> > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>


--
Paul Fremantle
VP/Technology, WSO2 and OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair

http://bloglines.com/blog/paulfremantle
paul@wso2.com

"Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com

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