Return-Path: Delivered-To: apmail-legal-discuss-archive@www.apache.org Received: (qmail 18643 invoked from network); 26 Jul 2005 13:27:21 -0000 Received: from hermes.apache.org (HELO mail.apache.org) (209.237.227.199) by minotaur.apache.org with SMTP; 26 Jul 2005 13:27:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 15278 invoked by uid 500); 26 Jul 2005 13:27:15 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-legal-discuss-archive@apache.org Received: (qmail 14909 invoked by uid 500); 26 Jul 2005 13:27:13 -0000 Mailing-List: contact legal-discuss-help@apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Delivered-To: mailing list legal-discuss@apache.org Received: (qmail 14767 invoked by uid 99); 26 Jul 2005 13:27:13 -0000 Received: from asf.osuosl.org (HELO asf.osuosl.org) (140.211.166.49) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Tue, 26 Jul 2005 06:27:12 -0700 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.1 required=10.0 tests=DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE,HTML_10_20,HTML_MESSAGE,SPF_HELO_FAIL,SPF_PASS X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (asf.osuosl.org: domain of jthom@us.ibm.com designates 32.97.182.141 as permitted sender) Received: from [32.97.182.141] (HELO e1.ny.us.ibm.com) (32.97.182.141) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Tue, 26 Jul 2005 06:27:04 -0700 Received: from d01relay02.pok.ibm.com (d01relay02.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.234]) by e1.ny.us.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j6QDR8Id009058; Tue, 26 Jul 2005 09:27:08 -0400 Received: from d01av02.pok.ibm.com (d01av02.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.216]) by d01relay02.pok.ibm.com (8.12.10/NCO/VERS6.7) with ESMTP id j6QDR86d207052; Tue, 26 Jul 2005 09:27:08 -0400 Received: from d01av02.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d01av02.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j6QDR8P1023196; Tue, 26 Jul 2005 09:27:08 -0400 Received: from [9.10.229.17] (d27ml602.rchland.ibm.com [9.10.229.17]) by d01av02.pok.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j6QDR8Me023193; Tue, 26 Jul 2005 09:27:08 -0400 In-Reply-To: <1122378613.3814.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> To: skitching@apache.org Cc: legal-discuss@apache.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Dual licensing of code X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 6.5.1IBM February 19, 2004 From: Jeffrey Thompson Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 09:27:05 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on d27ml602/27/M/IBM(Build V70_06092005|June 09, 2005) at 07/26/2005 08:27:07 AM, Serialize complete at 07/26/2005 08:27:07 AM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 0049E4060425704A_=" X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org X-Spam-Rating: minotaur.apache.org 1.6.2 0/1000/N --=_alternative 0049E4060425704A_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Simon Kitching wrote on 07/26/2005 07:50:13 AM: > Hi All, > > In the last couple of months I wrote two classes to assist in > unit-testing of jakarta commons logging. These classes have been > committed to the commons-logging subversion with an Apache copyright > and the standard APL 2.0 attached. > > I am now looking at writing an article about unit testing and would like > to be able to provide these classes as code in the public domain, just > to make it as easy as possible for readers of the article to reuse that > code. > > Is there any issue with doing this? What is the exact procedure I should > follow? Should I add something like > "This code is also in the public domain." > following the Apache license header or somesuch? I presume I can't just > delete the apache license header and replace it with such a declaration > - and I don't really want to; I just want readers of the article to be > able to reuse these two simple classes without any constraints at all, > including the requirement to acknowledge Apache code is present. As mentioned elsewhere, public domain isn't a license, it is the state of a work of authorship after which all copyright rights have been extinguished. That is, once something has been placed in the public domain, there is nothing left to license. Placing something in the public domain and distributing it under the Apache license are mutually inconsistent. > > Note that the classes are 100% my own work as can be seen from the > subversion history. The actual classes in question are > PathableTestSuite.java > PathableClassLoader.java > which can be seen here: > http://svn.apache. > org/repos/asf/jakarta/commons/proper/logging/trunk/src/test/org/apache/commons/logging/ > or here: > http://svn.apache.org/viewcvs. > cgi/jakarta/commons/proper/logging/trunk/src/test/org/apache/commons/logging/ It's normally recommended that an author keep copies of anything he contributes, so that he won't have to pull a copy from Apache's SVN. There is a question of proof if you try to dedicate something out of Apache's SVN to the public domain. Can you really PROVE that no other material has been added to that code by someone else? Logs are useful, but are they PROOF? Putting aside that question, you certainly can dedicate your code to the public domain. You own it and I don't see anything in the CLA or the Apache license that would prevent it. The effect on Apache will be interesting. The rights that they are licensing to their customers disappear, at least for those lines of code. It probably won't have any practical effect though because the remainder of the project is unaffected. The problems usually voiced about dedicating code to the public domain is that the process which satisfies one jursidiction might not satisfy others. In most jurisdictions the process is not well defined, so you would need to consult local experts in all relevant jurisdictions to make sure that you've followed all of the required steps. Most people when they think hard about it decide to just license the code under a very permissive license (such as modified-MIT). > > Thanks, > > Simon > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > DISCLAIMER: Discussions on this list are informational and educational > only, are not privileged and do not constitute legal advice. > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org > Staff Counsel, IBM Corporation (914)766-1757 (tie)8-826 (fax) -8160 (notes) jthom@ibmus (internet) jthom@us.ibm.com (home) jeff@beff.net (web) http://www.beff.net/ --=_alternative 0049E4060425704A_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Simon Kitching <skitching@apache.org> wrote on 07/26/2005 07:50:13 AM:

> Hi All,
>
> In the last couple of months I wrote two classes to assist in
> unit-testing of jakarta commons logging. These classes have been
> committed to the commons-logging subversion with an Apache copyright
> and the standard APL 2.0 attached.
>
> I am now looking at writing an article about unit testing and would like
> to be able to provide these classes as code in the public domain, just
> to make it as easy as possible for readers of the article to reuse that
> code.
>
> Is there any issue with doing this? What is the exact procedure I should
> follow? Should I add something like
>   "This code is also in the public domain."
> following the Apache license header or somesuch? I presume I can't just
> delete the apache license header and replace it with such a declaration
> - and I don't really want to; I just want readers of the article to be
> able to reuse these two simple classes without any constraints at all,
> including the requirement to acknowledge Apache code is present.
As mentioned elsewhere, public domain isn't a license, it is the state of a work of authorship after which all copyright rights have been extinguished.  That is, once something has been placed in the public domain, there is nothing left to license.  Placing something in the public domain and distributing it under the Apache license are mutually inconsistent.
>
> Note that the classes are 100% my own work as can be seen from the
> subversion history. The actual classes in question are
>   PathableTestSuite.java
>   PathableClassLoader.java
> which can be seen here:
> http://svn.apache.
> org/repos/asf/jakarta/commons/proper/logging/trunk/src/test/org/apache/commons/logging/
> or here:
> http://svn.apache.org/viewcvs.
> cgi/jakarta/commons/proper/logging/trunk/src/test/org/apache/commons/logging/
It's normally recommended that an author keep copies of anything he contributes, so that he won't have to pull a copy from Apache's SVN.  There is a question of proof if you try to dedicate something out of Apache's SVN to the public domain.  Can you really PROVE that no other material has been added to that code by someone else?  Logs are useful, but are they PROOF?

Putting aside that question, you certainly can dedicate your code to the public domain.  You own it and I don't see anything in the CLA or the Apache license that would prevent it.  The effect on Apache will be interesting.  The rights that they are licensing to their customers disappear, at least for those lines of code.  It probably won't have any practical effect though because the remainder of the project is unaffected.

The problems usually voiced about dedicating code to the public domain is that the process which satisfies one jursidiction might not satisfy others.  In most jurisdictions the process is not well defined, so you would need to consult local experts in all relevant jurisdictions to make sure that you've followed all of the required steps.  Most people when they think hard about it decide to just license the code under a very permissive license (such as modified-MIT).
>
> Thanks,
>
> Simon
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> DISCLAIMER: Discussions on this list are informational and educational
> only, are not privileged and do not constitute legal advice.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
>

Staff Counsel, IBM Corporation  (914)766-1757  (tie)8-826  (fax) -8160
(notes) jthom@ibmus  (internet) jthom@us.ibm.com (home) jeff@beff.net
(web) http://www.beff.net/

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