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From Davanum Srinivas <dava...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Derby/Cloudscape Patent
Date Thu, 23 Jun 2005 11:07:10 GMT
Geir,

I think Verisign probably has some too. Not just MSFT. At least IBM
should make it clear which Patents are *implicitly* granted.
Third-party or not.

On the WS-Security issue, can u help? at least with IBM license? If we
can get an OK from IBM for WSS4J, then we can petition microsoft.
Right now, it's like flogging a dead horse.

-- dims

On 6/23/05, Geir Magnusson Jr. <geirm@apache.org> wrote:
> 
> On Jun 22, 2005, at 10:56 PM, Davanum Srinivas wrote:
> 
> > Why should we hold Verisign to one standard (for TSIK, Justin told me
> > that we should get an explicit grant) and one for IBM? Why not get an
> > explicit grant (or) at least an acknowledgement that this patent is in
> > "play". This is one thing i dug up. We don't know if there are others.
> 
> If I understand the facts right, and it's the case that the Derby
> code infringes the patent, it's because IBM owns the patent that is
> infringed by the code IBM contributed to the ASF. Therefore, as per
> the terms of the CCLA/SG and the AL, they implicitly are granting
> patent licenses to any recipient of that codebase.
> 
> In the case of TSIK, Verisign is the code contributor, and MSFT is
> the [claimed] patent holder.  Verisign therefore isn't able to grant
> the patent license.  If it was MSFT that was contributing the code,
> it would be fine - MSFT would be implicitly granting the patent license.
> 
> > Stefano specifically asked for this information (which patents are
> > implicitly granted) on the board@ mailing list. I posted specific
> > question about this patent once on board@ and once on pmc@incubator
> > and got no responses from any one. Finally i asked Sam on IM and he
> > asked me to send Jeff a note.
> 
> Stefano's question was related to *third party* patents that IBM has
> a license to for it's DB technology that is infringed by Derby, and
> thus IBM is not implicitly granting patent licenses for.
> 
> See the diff?
> 
> >
> > <rant ignore="on">
> > On a related note, i have spent a lot of time searching for the IBM
> > patents for WS-Security and still haven't found it. It's ridiculous
> > for Apache to have to sign a license agreement for OASIS WS-Security
> > specification (see http://www.ibm.com/ibm/licensing/977Q/2112.shtml)
> > when there is *NO* public information either or IBM site or MSFT site
> > or Verisign site about which patents they have that Apache will
> > infringe by implementing WS-Security. Even the license PDF does not
> > mention any specific patents. This is just driving me nuts. At least
> > verisign is willing to donate code (TSIK) and would consider granting
> > licenses for their IP. Am getting the run around from IBM and MSFT
> > folks on the OASIS WSS mailing list (some public/some private). For
> > godsakes, they threw me out of the mailing list on a technicality.
> > </rant>
> >
> 
> I have no advice or comment other than noting that "this situation
> sucks", which is just a summary of the <rant/> paragraph above.
> 
> geir
> 
> > thanks for listening,
> > dims
> >
> > On 6/22/05, Geir Magnusson Jr. <geirm@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> On Jun 22, 2005, at 10:21 PM, Davanum Srinivas wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> Jeff,
> >>>
> >>> Is U.S. Patent 6,304,882
> >>> (http://www.google.com/search?q=Patent+6%2C304%2C882) applicable to
> >>> Derby as it was originally from cloudscape? See following URL's for
> >>> more information on the transfer details etc. If so, can we
> >>> please get
> >>> an explicit patent grant?
> >>>
> >>
> >> I read it as being owned by IBM.  If that's so, and IBM contributed
> >> the code, why do we need an *explicit* grant?
> >>
> >> Just curious about the thinking here...
> >>
> >> geir
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> http://tinyurl.com/cjjhh
> >>> http://tinyurl.com/99hxh
> >>> http://tinyurl.com/7vomw
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> dims
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Davanum Srinivas -http://blogs.cocoondev.org/dims/
> >>>
> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> -
> >>> DISCLAIMER: Discussions on this list are informational and
> >>> educational
> >>> only, are not privileged and do not constitute legal advice.
> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> -
> >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
> >>> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Geir Magnusson Jr                                  +1-203-665-6437
> >> geirm@apache.org
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Davanum Srinivas -http://blogs.cocoondev.org/dims/
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > DISCLAIMER: Discussions on this list are informational and educational
> > only, are not privileged and do not constitute legal advice.
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
> >
> >
> 
> --
> Geir Magnusson Jr                                  +1-203-665-6437
> geirm@apache.org
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> DISCLAIMER: Discussions on this list are informational and educational
> only, are not privileged and do not constitute legal advice.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
> 
> 


-- 
Davanum Srinivas -http://blogs.cocoondev.org/dims/

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