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From "Geir Magnusson Jr." <g...@pobox.com>
Subject Re: JSR200
Date Fri, 20 Mar 2009 10:34:01 GMT
To answer the question... it depends.

IMO...

Traditionally, for both SE and EE, new versions of "umbrella" or  
"platform" JSRs (EE or SE...) were accompanied by a set of new  
versions of existing JSRs or new JSRs for the technologies that were  
going to be included.  (This is especially true of EE, where you had  
distinct things like Servlets and JMS that clearly could stand on  
their own...)

The EE side of Sun's Java organization had grokked that there can be  
separate implementations of things for a while, and to give credit  
where credit is due, they've served us well - we've had separate  
servlet/JSP TCKs, JMS TCKs, and I remember that Sun did a bit of work  
at our request to make the JavaMail TCK separate from the EE pile so  
the Geronimo project could produce a tested impl of JavaMail indep of  
their full EE distro.

On the SE side, we've had TCKs for separable things as well - for  
example the JAX* stuff.

Given that Harmony has [once again] demonstrated that core SE  
technology is separable, I suspect that Sun's decision here is driven  
in part by a lack of resources (they either are all aboard the JavaFX  
Titanic or work for Google now), and probably in part influenced by  
their own non-separable implementation of the spec.

If nothing else (independent of whether or not we keep talking to sun  
about 200) I think we need to work to prevent this from happening  
again - if a JSR is done, even if it's part of a platform, there needs  
to either be a TCK and RI for it (as required), or it must not be  
considered an implementable, independent spec w/ a spec license (and  
I'm not really sure that that means given how the JCP works).

I'm not really sure how meaningful the latter is - the OSS community  
has proved time and again that no spec can't be implemented.

geir


On Mar 19, 2009, at 11:49 PM, Niclas Hedhman wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 9:00 AM, Geir Magnusson Jr. <geir@pobox.com>  
> wrote:
>> Sun has informed me that the TCK for JSR-200 is not available as a  
>> separate
>> TCK, as it's part of the platform TCK for Java SE.
>>
>> We requested that it be separated, but in the opinion of Sun, it  
>> wasn't
>> separable given it's integration w/ java.util.
>
> So, does that mean that IFF another JSR-XYZ that is doing the same for
> inclusion in Java 7, THEN IF Java 7 umbrella JSR is voted down, that
> the JSR-XYZ is invalid/incomplete or does it still stand?
>
> In fact, it seems odd to me that TCK is required for JSRs, but not
> required to be part of the individual JSR...
>
>
> I'll crawl back under my JSR-free rock.
>
>
> Cheers
> Niclas
> -- 
> http://www.qi4j.org - New Energy for Java


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