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From "Sam Ruby" <ru...@intertwingly.net>
Subject Re: Handling Innovation and Producing an RI
Date Mon, 17 Mar 2008 23:13:43 GMT
On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 7:00 PM, Geir Magnusson Jr. <geir@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>  On Mar 17, 2008, at 6:51 PM, Sam Ruby wrote:
>
>  > On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 5:26 PM, Geir Magnusson Jr. <geir@pobox.com>
>  > wrote:
>  >>
>  >> On Mar 17, 2008, at 3:37 PM, Craig L Russell wrote:
>  >>
>  >>>
>  >>> On Mar 17, 2008, at 10:36 AM, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
>  >>>
>  >>>>
>  >>>> On Mar 17, 2008, at 12:36 PM, Steve Loughran wrote:
>  >>>>
>  >>>>> Sam Ruby wrote:
>  >>>>>
>  >>>>>> Given how hard it was to challenge the TCK, in some cases we
>  >>>>>> simply
>  >>>>>> complied instead.
>  >>>>>
>  >>>>> which is, in a way, an argument against JCP standards, especially
>  >>>>> those whose TCK is meant to be a secret
>  >>>>
>  >>>> I don't think I've seen a binary TCK yet.
>  >>>
>  >>> If I may comment, you have to sign a NDA to see the sources.
>  >>
>  >> The point is that you can see the source to figure out what's going
>  >> on.  Clearly open source TCKs would be far better.
>  >
>  > Steve's point is valid too.  In some ways, the TCK effectively defines
>  > additional standards, ones that are not agreed to by the expert group,
>  > and not publicly documented.
>
>  I think that depends mostly on the spec lead, doesn't it?

I guess that would depend on what your definition of 'mostly' is.

As it stands now, you can't claim compliance until you pass the test.
If you spot an issue with a test, you must report it, make your case,
wait for a fix to get implemented, get a new version of the test, and
retest.  If all goes well, that's generally a few days worth of work.

Sometimes it is easier to simply comply instead.

If there weren't NDA requirements, we could simply report the full
status to our licensees so that they could make an informed choice as
to whether they want to pick up a given alpha, beta, or release
candidate.  Reporting and fixing would go on in parallel.  And the
tests themselves would improve in the process.

- Sam Ruby

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