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From Jeff Genender <jgenen...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [VOTE] New ASF/JCP Policies
Date Fri, 13 Jul 2007 23:39:01 GMT


Sam Ruby wrote:
> On 7/13/07, Jeff Genender <jgenender@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>> I also did not say do nothing.  I was shooting holes in taking a hard
>> line approach (which you  offered) that may ultimately "cut off our nose
>> to spite our face".  Playing the ace card with a hand full of other
>> cards will likely not be good for anyone.
> 
> What other cards do we have left?
> 

I think your proposal wasn't too far off from our cards.  The -1 on the
JSR formation due to licensing is a great way to play a card that will
have an effect.

Pulling all TCKs now would be a statement yes, but we will suffocate
ourselves.  Thats the Ace card I would want to hold until the last moment.

Your offer of status quo with no new TCKs gives us a little breathing
room.  I think thats a compromise.

> Food for thought: if it is obvious that we never will take a hard line
> approach, then we might as well not try.  On the other hand, if a hard
> line approach is something we are willing to take at some point, we
> need to be able to define what that point is.
> 
> In other words, does pragmatic == "bend over"; or does pragmatic mean
> that we will give a little, but only while there is reasonable hope of
> an acceptable solution?
> 
> I'm in the latter camp, myself.  And seeing this declared an 'impasse'
> in February and not getting any public response to the open letter
> published in April means that we are running low on cards, and we
> should now be planning what the end game looks like.

I don't expect a response to an open letter.  Open letters have always
been used as arm twisters.

> 
> Geir has been tasked to come up with this plan.  If you have any
> suggestions, or happen to have an ace up your sleeve, now would be a
> good time to come forward.
> 

Sure...here are some ideas...just ideas.  Why are we not spec-leading
JSRs?  Why are we not pushing forward a JSR where we have a bit of
control?  Why are we allowing Sun to be the leads...are they the ones we
are having problems with?  Create a new JSR, or copy the current ones,
whatever, change the licensing and submit it ourselves.  I think we have
some opportunities to make a change by taking a leadership position
before pulling out all together.  Its *very* possible I don't have a
good understanding of the JCP inner workings of the JCP since I am just
an EG guy ;-), but I would submit some JSRs the way we want to see them.
 Anyways, I may have already put my foot in my mouth w/o checking the
JCP rules...but just trying to think outside the box.  I think we should
make some noise before playing the big cards.

> - Sam Ruby

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