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From Wade Chandler <hwadechandler-apa...@yahoo.com>
Subject Apache Open Letter to Sun, JCK, and how it really affects field of use.
Date Mon, 09 Jul 2007 19:54:33 GMT

I'm sorry if this has been asked before, but I have
been reading and reading the emails and still don't
see it exactly. How exactly does the JCK license
impose any restrictions on Harmony end users? With the
Sun JRE for instance, I don't have a JCK or license
for the JCK, yet I can redistribute the runtime. I
obviously don't redistribute the JCK as I have never
had a copy.

I'm not a lawyer. I'm just a member of the Java
community at large and a member of different Java
projects and communities. I have been more active in
the past on Apache mailing lists (mainly AXIS and
Tomcat), have worked on iReport, and different Sun
sponsored projects. Anyways, I'm just having a hard
time understanding how JCK limitations actually affect
end users. I'm not asking for a laymans term version
of the issue, but instead the direct limiting language
or at least a link as I don't think I have a hard time
understanding legal terms and licenses. 

I can't find anywhere anything in a license I have
read which limits the end users of either a build of
tested sources or the RI (harmony RI would be included
in this). I was looking for the JCK, and found where
it can be downloaded, but one has to be a Java partner
to get it. So, I haven't actually read its license.

Again, sorry if it has been asked etc, but the FAQ
doesn't really address this nor does the letter
specifically point me to anything I can read which
shows the limitation and language.

I have only seen in the FAQ:
"To give a concrete example from the Sun / Apache     
  dispute, if Apache accepted Sun's terms, then users
of a standard, tested build of Apache Harmony for
Linux on a standard general purpose x86-based computer
(for example, a Dell desktop) would be prevented from
freely using that software and that hardware in any
application where the computer was placed in an
enclosed cabinet, like an information kiosk at a
shopping mall, or an X-ray machine at an airport."

and I do not understand how the JCK testing affects
redistribution. This seems more like a function of the
license included with the RI of Harmony unless the
intent is to include a JCK with the RI.

If the issue is someone can't take the Apache sources,
fix an actual bug, and then redistribute without
having a JCK and testing then I think having the JCK
license is still a good thing. Otherwise, people could
fix things however they can, possibly breaking some
functionality and then redistribute compromising the
actual compatibility. Otherwise, without TCK testing,
they can embed their build in their software, not call
it "Java" or a JSRXXX impl, and still use it...is this
not correct?

Also, I see many JSRs which say the TCK will not be
more than 50,000 yet do not say they will be free. Is
Apache working towards this going away as well? Is
this part of the JCP changes Apache is working for as
part of this issue? I know I don't have 50,000 to pay
for a TCK from any one or company.

Thanks for helping me understand the issue,


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