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From "Richard S. Hall" <he...@ungoverned.org>
Subject Re: JSR 291 - public review
Date Sun, 21 Jan 2007 23:14:11 GMT
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
>> Actually, I represent myself, because I am not an Apache member.
> We don't require membership to represent the ASF in an EG, just 
> someone with a clue.

I stand corrected, but still, I am a member of the EG due to my OSGi 

>> The goal of JSR 291 was to try to unite the JCP and OSGi communities 
>> and to bring a dynamic component environment (via OSGi) to existing 
>> Java platforms. The approach for doing this was to take the OSGi R4 
>> spec as a starting point and to let the expert group give input into 
>> any other missing pieces. It has done this.
> And where is evidence of that?  As far as I can tell, the spec is a 
> glorified URL for OSGi R4.1.

Well, there is the mailing list archive, which I think is public, since 
the mailing list was public. There would be no OSGi R4.1 if it weren't 
for JSR 291.

>> The early draft release zip file contains a draft copy of the OSGi 
>> R4.1 spec, which includes changes to meet requirements raised by the 
>> expert group. Not all requirements were met, due to time constraints, 
>> but I believe that all requirements were acknowledged and discussed 
>> and considered for OSGi R5.
>> So, in short, I believe the JSR has accomplished what it set out to do.
> The JSR says that the "specification will define a dynamic component 
> framework including component lifecycle for existing Java SE 
> platforms" and further the JSR states that
> "This specification will be a subset of JSR 232 including the 
> modularity and lifecycle aspects of the OSGi R4 framework but 
> excluding the service aspects of the framework, declarative service 
> support, and the services defined by JSR 232.
> The specification lead will track revisions in the JSR 232 and OSGi 
> specifications as they apply to this JSR, and will publish updates to 
> this JSR as those specifications are updated."
> In your opinion, has the JSR done that?

Not a simple answer. First, I believe it is a subset of JSR 232, because 
that includes stuff related to the mobile phone world that is not in 
291. Second, it did try to leave out services and there was discussion 
on the EG mailing list about what/how to leave things out, but in the 
end it proved too difficult to leave the service layer completely out, 
since the module and life cycle layers were partially exposed in 
services, such as the PackageAdmin service. Most services are not part 
of 291, for example the OSGi compendium services are not included.

> Another question - given that there's no content to the spec offered 
> by the EG, what's the point?  OSGi exists, and is a solid spec.  
> What's the point of a JSR that says "look over there" without saying 
> anything itself?

Again, I think one of the goals here was to try to bring the communities 
together so that OSGi would not necessarily exist completely independent 
of the JCP in the future. This had already been done for Java ME via 
232, so this is would just make it official for Java SE.

However, I cannot claim to necessarily have all the answers, since I am 
just an EG member.

I agree that OSGi is a solid spec, but without trying to bridge the gap 
between the JCP and the OSGi Alliance, then it is as if OSGi technology 
doesn't even exist as far as the JCP is concerned, and that benefits no 
one in my opinion.

-> richard

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