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From Steve Loughran <ste...@apache.org>
Subject test-driven standards
Date Mon, 21 Nov 2005 16:25:27 GMT
Dan Diephouse wrote:
> Steve Loughran wrote:
> 
>> On the subject of standards, its my opinion that standards groups need 
>> to adopt a lot more OSS thinking. That means
>>
>> -specs come with tests. Or the tests are the spec, to put it differently
>> -team SCM repos of test+source are public
>> -gump does a  nightly build of everything
>>
>> see: see: 
>> http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/*checkout*/deployment/deployment/doc/steve/test_driven_standards.doc

>>
>>
>>
>> I'm partway there with the spec I work on, but there is so much 
>> ignorance (we dont need tests) and unwillingness to put stuff into a 
>> shared SCM that we dont get the full benefits
>>
 > I can't +1 this enough. Is there any kind of legal reason why current
 > JSRs are so closed about their TCKs and sources?
 >


Dont know about legality, but I I kind of hint at other causes in this 
presentation on testing, where I worry about adoption being pushed back 
by management

http://people.apache.org/~stevel/slides/testing.pdf

Interestingly, junit testing is far more prevalent in java OSS than 
'enterprise grade' apps that I often encounter. I havent yet come up 
with a good reason for this, but some hypotheses:

  -pressure from above to deliver code, no management pressure for tests.
  -more innovation in process is happening in OSS
  -in OSS-land, everybody knows not to trust an app without junit tests 
(or regular gump outages)

I have a dream, and the dream is: every W3C standard, every JCP program 
has an SVN repo with a test suite, and gump builds every one, every 
night. Help me realise this dream... (*)


-Steve


(*) I also have a dream that at the click of a button we can refile 
bugreps of the type "Ant doesnt handle '--' in comments" as bugs with 
the XML working group though some distributed bug database, but that one 
is harder,


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