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From Mirko Novakovic <mirko.novako...@codecentric.de>
Subject Re: AW: Tool proposal for helping run and monitor the ASF Infra Services
Date Tue, 23 Aug 2016 14:04:52 GMT
Hi Daniel,

I am the Instana CEO and happy to answer your questions. First of all I would like to point
out that we are an APM company/product, so more in the space of NewRelic than DataDog. But
as we are monitoring the application as a whole (and model a dynamic dependency graph for
it) we also monitor the infrastructure. And have out of the box dashboards etc but the core
is our distributed tracing and service quality management - all automatic and without configuration.

Regarding the questions:

- I can guarantee that there is no time limit on this offering for Apache - the only thing
we should discuss is the number of components you would monitor, as it is SAAS there should
be some maximum defined so that the costs for us do not explode. If you want to have Instana
On Premise we wouldn’t need that limit.

- Our whole system is streaming based, so we stream the data form the agent to the server
and from the server the data is pushed to the UI. On the backend we build a graph and apply
a knowledge base on each component to find changes and issues in realtime. Based on service
KPIs (Four Golden Signals by Google) we identify if the changes/issues are having impact on
the service quality - if yes we report. The algorithms are based on machine learning, so we
see things like sudden drops, slow responses, high error rates, etc etc

- Don’t know Circonus in details, so I cannot really compare it. Instana for sure is not
time consuming as it was designed for auto discovery and zero configuration. 

- We have different types of integration using API and SDK. For alarms we have out of the
box integrations for PagerDuty, OpsGenie and Slack, but also provide a generic Webhook to
integrated with any other system that has an API.

- The agent is Apache Karaf based, can update itself using a private or public sensor (plugin)
repository that is based on Apache Maven technology. We provide a set of sensors for approx
40 technologies right now but enable the users to extend this with own sensors. 

We can give you more insights or a demo at any time.

Best regards

On 2016-08-19 09:16 (+0200), Daniel Gruno <h...@apache.org> wrote: 
> On 08/19/2016 08:20 AM, Christofer Dutz wrote:> 
> > Hi Chris,> 
> > > 
> > I knew that someone asked exactly the "how does it compare to datadog" question
somewhere. Here's the link to that mail thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12147219>

> > > 
> > And I can confirm the shortcomings of the time series approach, cause in jenkins,
I'd say about 70% of recent failures of flex builds were due to timeouts when uploading Maven
artifacts to nexus. The current solution doesn't seem to detect that. Not only that I couldn't
see any hipchat notifications. The infra guys always had to start looking for the real reason
of the timeouts as nexus wasn't having any problems at all.> 
> I'd say the real reason we weren't being notified is because httpd> 
> wasn't telling us it was jammed, so it would have made little difference> 
> whether we used product X or Y to monitor it, when it wasn't sending out> 
> data that could lead us to what the problem was. It wasn't a question of> 
> granularity, the data just wasn't enabled for any agent to see.> 
> I would imagine this would be something _instead_ of datadog, which> 
> leads me to some questions:> 
> - For how long into the future could we have a guarantee that this isn't> 
> gonna cost us $$$/year or whatever the price would end up being with a> 
> non-free version?> 
> - What is understood by real time checks here? and what exactly is checked?> 
> - How does this relate to more advanced monitoring systems like> 
> Circonus? As you may know, we had to drop that as it proved to be rather> 
> time consuming.> 
> - What sort of integrations does this system have? How are alerts> 
> dispatched?> 
> I'd also be interested in learning about plugins and how to customize> 
> the agents.> 
> With regards,> 
> Daniel.> 
> > > 
> > And I really live the feature of tracking down the response time for one service
back to other servers to find it the real reason for a system being slow (have a look in the
presentation for this. There's a great slide on this)> 
> > > 
> > Chris> 
> > > 
> > > 
> > Von meinem Samsung Galaxy Smartphone gesendet.> 
> > > 
> > > 
> > -------- Ursprngliche Nachricht --------> 
> > Von: Chris Lambertus <cm...@apache.org>> 
> > Datum: 19.08.16 07:03 (GMT+01:00)> 
> > An: infrastructure-dev@apache.org, Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>> 
> > Cc: mirko.novakovic@codecentric.de> 
> > Betreff: Re: Tool proposal for helping run and monitor the ASF Infra Services>

> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > Hiya Chris,> 
> > > 
> > Thanks for the info and the legwork on this. We currently use DataDog, which is
very similar to what Instana appears to provide  an agent-based monitoring solution that gives
us that kind of look into our infra. We also have a number of internal tools that report on
various goings-on as well. You might see some of this in #asfinfra on hipchat from SNMP2HipChat.
DataDog also reports various problems there, as does our monitoring via PingMyBox.> 
> > > 
> > Since youre not root@, you may not see some of the stuff that we see, but I think
by and large, the majority of the monitors do direct to #asfinfra. Have you noticed gaps in
the monitoring? Since we moved to DataDog, weve been quite happy with the resolution and metrics
weve been able to get. Its been on my back burner for awhile to expose some of our DD dashboards
as public, but for right now its somewhat limited access. In the interests of transparency
(but not at the expense of security,) Id be happy to work with you to expose more of this,
and Im happy to address any questions or concerns about shortcomings in our monitoring.>

> > > 
> > Many thanks to Instana for offering the ASF free services! Id definitely like to
hear more about what they might be able to offer on top of what we already get from DataDog.
Ill take a look at the info you sent out. Please feel free to follow up with me directly,
either via email or hipchat.> 
> > > 
> > Cheers,> 
> > -Chris> 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> >> On Aug 18, 2016, at 2:13 AM, Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de> wrote:>

> >>> 
> >> Hi,> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >> I have been on the Infra Hipchat for a few weeks now while trying to migrate
the Flex project to Maven and back to the ASF Infra build system. Thanks for your support
in this and even more thanks for the trust in granting me access and Admin rights on the windows1
build agent.> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >> In the chat I observed the daily work of you guys, having to maintain quite
a zoo of all sorts of different systems on different platforms. Some problems you were having
seem quite easy to track down ... if the hard disk is full, you clean up. But not all problems
are that easy to track down. Thinking of the problems with repository.apache.org ... here
the cause was the proxy being flooded with connections (I think this was the case) ... regular
restarts of this helped temporarily, but I don't think that helps on the long term as no one
had an idea why those connections were hanging there in the first place.> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >> A few years ago the company I work for - codecentric - have founded a company
called Instana. They are developing an agent based system for monitoring IT infrastructure.
In contrast to most established solutions, they use machine learning strategies to analyze
the root cause for problems. While you can probably achieve similar results with normal tools,
the problem is that you need a very detailed domain knowledge to do so and in a regularly
changing environment you need to continuously keep adjusting your metrics. Instana does this
automatically. I think you can imagine how tricky it is to follow the root cause for bad response
times through a network of interconnected services.> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >> Investing almost all of my free time (and a lot of my paid time) for Apache,
noticing a lot of the problems you have to deal with every day, I asked Instana if they would
be willing to provide their service to the ASF for free and they agreed and immediately setup
a dedicated instance.> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >> I wanted to try the thing out as I would prefer to grab a few beers with you
at ApcheCon in Cevillia and not get punched in the face for recommending something bad ;-)
... so I tried this on my private Server playground. I unpacked and started the agent and
the host appeared on the web console and reported the problems it was having (ones I didn't
even know about) as well as other systems it communicates with ... as soon as I added agents
on these machines the analytics started doing their work across system and I built up a map
view of my services and their correlation. So it's really a system that needs almost no configuration
at all :-)> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >> I uploaded the internal product presentation here: https://public.centerdevice.de/1a9dc4ed-515e-482e-9fd6-6d60a5562598
(please don't share this outside of the ASF)> 
> >>> 
> >> Please use the password: 4p4cheR0cks (I'll remove that document in about two
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >> By the way ... the screenshots in the presentation are real ... I was amazed
of seeing a 3D web UI in production for the first time ;-)> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >> So if there is any interest in this offer, I would be more than happy to provide
credentials to you and assist you in getting started, so you could easily try it out. The
guys at Instana would also be delighted to give you guys an online demo and answer any questions
you might be having. Feel free to conatact Mirco directly for this: mirko.novakovic@codecentric.de>

> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >> Chris> 
> > > 
> > > 

Mirko Novakovic | Vorstand

codecentric AG | Merscheider Straße 1 | 42699 Solingen | Deutschland
tel: +49 (0) 212.23362811 | fax: +49 (0) 212.23362879 | mobil: +49 (0) 163.6681500
www.codecentric.de | blog.codecentric.de | www.meettheexperts.de | www.more4fi.de    

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